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nuclear battery - no fission, fusion, or betavoltaics.

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usaman65

Sun Feb 15 2009, 04:11AM

Registered Member #1364 Joined: Thu Feb 28 2008, 09:09PM
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Posts: 55

I am going to try it with a chunk or pitchblende approx. 30,000 CPM Beta/Gamma and see my results...just need solid scamatics on what to do.....

Probly going to use copper and silver electrodes. both 99.9% pure

kev

usaman65

Sun Feb 15 2009, 05:49PM

Registered Member #1364 Joined: Thu Feb 28 2008, 09:09PM
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Posts: 55

anybody got a good discription on the best way to do this? somebody meantioned 2 compartments?

kev

Hon1nbo

Sun Feb 15 2009, 07:11PM

Registered Member #902 Joined: Sun Jul 15 2007, 08:17PM
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 1042

usaman65 wrote ...

anybody got a good discription on the best way to do this? somebody meantioned 2 compartments?

kev

if you meant the two compartments from my water clock experiment, that was simply multiple cells in series, for a higher voltage...
after more research into theory of what might be happening, I started to wonder if it might be a form of MHD power, or MagnetoHydro Dynamics for the unknowing.
While it may seem unlikely, realize that the particle emitted by the radioactive samples are electrically charged, and in many cases to a Very high potential. Also note that when current is in motion, a magnetic field is produced.
Given that these same particles make the air (or whatever gas your chamber uses, but air in my water clock experiment) conductive, and as the charged particles are in motion, the magnetic field (and possible the conductor through which the flux of the magnetic field is moving, via the motion of the ionizing particles) is in motion, and by the current theories of Electromagnetic Induction, a current is produced

some thoughts I had for increased performance:
1) given that the particles are in motion and conductive, place a strong magnet near the chamber, but not such that it deflects the particles away from the electrodes
2) use a gas that is easier to ionize than air
3) experiment with various electrode configurations and types, but careful noting of any distance changes...

4) attempt a BetaVoltaic version of the project, in which a PN Junction of a semiconducting material acts similar to a solar cell, but instead of a phton releasing an electron in the material, the electrons emitted by radioactive decay themselves be captured and released into the circuit...

usaman65

Sun Feb 15 2009, 08:00PM

Registered Member #1364 Joined: Thu Feb 28 2008, 09:09PM
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Posts: 55

Alright, to start I will construct one with a non conducting PVC tube shell which will block beta and keep it in the chamber and use very conductive copper and silver electroodes. I am interested in the properties of ionizing radiation and gold, and am having a thin gold sheet made for my experiments, I will have to have the lectrodes fabricated aswell. A better ionizing gas would be that of a geiger muller tube, halogen quenched I think.

I will see I f I get any chages in voltage in my first experiment.

kev

Hon1nbo

Sun Feb 15 2009, 08:27PM

Registered Member #902 Joined: Sun Jul 15 2007, 08:17PM
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 1042

One quick note: I realized randomly that a vacuum might work even better if the design were the sole collection of the charge of the particles... I do not know if this would be practical, but eventually I might try it... any thoughts of it it might work? (I think it should work after seeing the original photoelectric effect experiment, which had two separated plates in a vacuum, one of which ejected an electron after being struck by a photon)

and a geiger muller tube's gas would likely work best at conducting the particle's charge (that's why they use them in radiation meters)

usaman65

Sun Feb 15 2009, 08:39PM

Registered Member #1364 Joined: Thu Feb 28 2008, 09:09PM
Location:
Posts: 55

I am also thinking of having a graphite tube made as the shell, and one electrode down the center to have your 2 electrodes. It blocks RAD great, and will probly help...any thoughts?

kev

usaman65

Sat Mar 14 2009, 05:41PM

Registered Member #1364 Joined: Thu Feb 28 2008, 09:09PM
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Posts: 55

Any new updates on this thread? plus, anybody have a diagram of the orig. design of the one that powered the clock?

kev

Sulaiman

Sat Mar 14 2009, 06:24PM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3141

I think you are rather optimistic;

{ I am going to try it with a chunk or pitchblende approx. 30,000 CPM Beta/Gamma }

30,000 CPM = 500 electrons per second, ...80 atto-amperes !

Am I missing something here?

Hon1nbo

Sat Mar 14 2009, 07:02PM

Registered Member #902 Joined: Sun Jul 15 2007, 08:17PM
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 1042

Sulaiman wrote ...

I think you are rather optimistic;

{ I am going to try it with a chunk or pitchblende approx. 30,000 CPM Beta/Gamma }

30,000 CPM = 500 electrons per second, ...80 atto-amperes !

Am I missing something here?

I still don't understand fully what is going on, so I can't say if that would be right... but from what I can observe, and what I know about the setup, is that electrons in the closed gas container can ionize the gas, making it conductive, and allowing the flow of charge, however this is where things become a little speculative as to the process occurring, but it might be possible to improve a specific aspect to determine which process it is, or which is most effective...
1) ions themselves are the source of electricity: what I think is going on, at least on some basic level...
2) motion of charged particles (a.k.a. moving field) in the ionized substance (the gas of the chamber) produce current via Em induction, though I have doubts about the capabilities of the individual particles to do this...
3) the moving conductive fluid is producing current in response to a nearby magnetic field, which I think has the most potential for output, but not what happened in my setup... though my house does have a lot of RFI/EMI around, and the clock I barely managed to run is already designed for extremely low power sources... so that might have something to do with it
4) standard salt water battery chemistry, except that the ionized gas replaces the water - this I think is either a large contributer, or absolutely wrong - I am not an expert on the subject matter...

@usaman - all of the information I have is in the thread... I got rid of the original unit after realizing that it was scraping off radioactive material in the electrode area, which used aluminum conductors... and it was not in an easy spot to get out, so I made myself stop until I could build a custom unit, which so far I have not done yet...

usaman65

Sun Mar 15 2009, 01:08AM

Registered Member #1364 Joined: Thu Feb 28 2008, 09:09PM
Location:
Posts: 55

Im not completely sure i understand you. So your saying that there was water in the "bettery" anong wit hthe radioactive source?

kev

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