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reactivity of KMnO4 (potassium permagantate)

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thermite

Sat Feb 23 2008, 04:09PM

Banned on 02/27/2008
Registered Member #1326 Joined: Sun Feb 17 2008, 11:19PM
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Posts: 49

ramses wrote ...

Thermite- by definition the oxidizer in thermite is a metal oxide. KMnO4 is not a metal oxide. I would also ask that you not discuss conspiracy theories about 9-11 on my thread about KMnO4, it may draw unwanted attention to the forum (more terrorist paranoia).

Quite the opposite.

For as long as the false 19 hijackers theory is believed, there will be the paranoia and the honest experimenter like myself under fear.

The way I solved it was (before 911 truth came out in the open) is to contact city fire officials. contact industries that supply thermite stuff and get their literature info and safety precautions. also consider depositing a signed affidavit on the intentions of experimentation.

Remember, from reading the erichufschmid's site, NOT all government is corrupt. One essential aspect of 911 operation was to disable and fool the law enforecement itself.

If you search for "Ivaylo Ivanov swastika" on the internet you shall find how they try to deceive the police in NY but they got caught finally.

On 911 NY police caught a "truck load of mossad explosives" near the george washington bridge.

We have to educate our local police and fire departments about the legitimate hobbying and not to jump to conclusions.

I think this reply was necessary to correct this attitude that as long as we dont talk about a crime of 911 no one will come near us. On the contrary a guilty and/or afraid conscience can get its own honest self in trouble.

I shall remind you that the anthrax mailer has not been caught by the FBI yet and if there is any best lead to those terrorist, it is the anthrax mailer.

cheers

P.S. yes the thread was about KNO3 also. its safer than KMnO4. But KMnO4 is easily obtainable and possibly less source of gas than the former for metallurgical thermite boosting applications if you are afraid of the chlorate as I am. I am nt familiar with chlorate very much but KMnO4 is very poisonous material due to Mn in it. This info is on the authority of medical books.

ramses

Sat Feb 23 2008, 05:06PM

Registered Member #1208 Joined: Thu Jan 03 2008, 05:30PM
Location: Chesterland, OH
Posts: 154

well that was completely off topic, but i ruled out KNO3, and don't have chlorates. this is about KMnO4

thermite

Sat Feb 23 2008, 05:08PM

Banned on 02/27/2008
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ramses wrote ...

well that was completely off topic, but i ruled out KNO3, and don't have chlorates. this is about KMnO4

you can grow pure white crystals of nitrate from a concentrated solution of impure crap.

Wolfram

Sat Feb 23 2008, 05:39PM

Registered Member #33 Joined: Sat Feb 04 2006, 01:31PM
Location: Norway
Posts: 971

thermite wrote ...

ramses wrote ...

well that was completely off topic, but i ruled out KNO3, and don't have chlorates. this is about KMnO4

you can grow pure white crystals of nitrate from a concentrated solution of impure crap.

This has been mentioned earlier in the thread, and it was dismissed because of the smell and general messiness.

Thermite, please refrain from mentioning 9/11, thermite and conspiracy theories in every single thread you post in.

thermite

Sat Feb 23 2008, 06:28PM

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Anders M. wrote ...

Thermite, please refrain from mentioning 9/11, thermite and conspiracy theories in every single thread you post in.

No mention in "Best document on blumlein and High Voltage Techniques" <---- nor do I intend to mention unless someone brings it up. It has nothing to do with chemistry or safety of chemical nature. Only where it is applicable or relevant.

Backyard Skunkworks

Sat Feb 23 2008, 06:50PM

Registered Member #1262 Joined: Fri Jan 25 2008, 05:22AM
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 451

Powerlabs has an interesting page on Potash Permag, http://www.powerlabs.org/chemlabs/kmno.htm

Also, niter beds REALLY ARE horrible smelly rank vile things. I was just reccomending one if you lack other options and want cheap saltpetre REALLY BADLY. I'd shy away from niter beds unless you totally have to, on the rankness scale they are up there with port-a-poties and roadkill. If you want saltpetre at all costs... http://www.survival.com/turds.htm

ramses

Sat Feb 23 2008, 07:05PM

Registered Member #1208 Joined: Thu Jan 03 2008, 05:30PM
Location: Chesterland, OH
Posts: 154

Skunkworks: I got a 404 from your link, and thank you for understanding that I don't want a portapotty full of crap and dead animals rotting in my back yard. I am sorry about my first post refuting the KMnO4 and H2O2 reaction, I just went to powerlabs and found out that you were right. but that doesn't solve my problem because I don't have 70% H2O2 and it still wastes like 2O2 coming out the exhaust...

I may be getting some KMnO4 tomorrow, and I will test with fuels if possible. any input on things that are KNOWN to be REALLY unstable is welcome, because I value my hands/ eyebrows. I will also "shop" for other stuff(Fe2O3, KNO3, painter's aluminum, etc.)

p.s. 50th post!

MOT_man

Sun Mar 09 2008, 05:21AM

Registered Member #1127 Joined: Mon Nov 19 2007, 12:08AM
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I'd be super careful around KMnO4 and mixing with chlorides especially- especially organic chloride solvents... some can become serious nerve toxins - and other can explode violently. You have been warned! This oxidizer is extremely powerful can form NASTY NASTY byproducts --- liquid "hell" or Manganese Heptoxide is EXTREMELY unstable and will set fire to anything. Its rather easy to make and does not last long in oxygen rich atmospheres. It was accidentally discovered when pure sulphuric acid was mixed with Potassium Permanganate back in the late 19th century. A greenish oil began to form - it was then isolated via pipette. It is SO REACTIVE it will set fire to ANYTHING ORGANIC! Its a great test... but I'd be DAMN careful with it!

NEVER EVER mix Manganese Heptoxide with Aromatic Hydrocarbons - especially XYLENE and Toluene!!! You've been warned. DEADLY COMBO ---

ramses

Mon Mar 10 2008, 07:32PM

Registered Member #1208 Joined: Thu Jan 03 2008, 05:30PM
Location: Chesterland, OH
Posts: 154

i don't see why i would mix salt into my rocket fuel and, as stated, I don't have chlorates. i guess i will just have to try and i will post my findings, typing with only my remaining fingers if necessary... thanks for the general tips,
rames

Banana Man

Thu Mar 13 2008, 01:17AM

Registered Member #625 Joined: Tue Apr 03 2007, 08:05AM
Location: Hollyweird, FL 33020
Posts: 18

You mentioned originally that you may make fuse to ignite the rockets. Have you considered using electronic ignition? It's not as simple as fuse but it is easy to determine exactly when the launch will occur, easy to abort the launch if you see something unsafe, and does not have you running away from something that may or may not explode in an unknown amount of time. The igniters can be purchased at hobby shops or you can even make them yourself with some wire, steel wool, and black powder or match heads with something to bind it. I would suggest using these instead of fuse any day. Try these directions:

As for a replacement for glycerin to light thermite, I'm assuming that you cant get your hands on a bottle of glycerin. At your local pharmacy they will have laxative suppositories which is nothing more than a little packet of glycerin with directions to shove it up your... They are conveniently packaged and pre measured to bring to your test site.
Another good substitute for glycerin is ethylene glycol found in antifreeze. Straight antifreeze will normally work but for a better reaction you could try removing the 50% water by placing it in a pan with plenty of ventilation until it reaches approx half the original volume. Ethylene glycol reacts about twice as fast as glycerin but of course has more toxicity hazards. A magnesium wire and probably a sparkler will work too you know. Good luck with the rockets.

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