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4hv.org :: Forums :: Tesla Coils
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CCPS (Capacitor Charging Power Supply)

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Sulaiman
Mon Sept 10 2007, 10:34PM
Sulaiman Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140
'Punch through" is when both devices in a half-bridge (or one half of a full-bridge) turn on together (briefly)
during switching.
The resulting high current surge usually 'punches through' silicon.
i.e. they have a very high peak current rating, limited by Rds(on) increasing with Ids.
From memory only. (i.e. If it's important, you'd better check my interpretation)
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Steve Ward
Mon Sept 10 2007, 11:37PM
Steve Ward Registered Member #146 Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 04:21AM
Location: Austin Tx
Posts: 1055
You are thinking of shoot-through Sulaiman.

Punch-through has to do with the semiconductor material itself and how wide the depletion region becomes (as in, does it exceed the junction width) when the device is saturated. It has really nothing to do with voltage stand off and avalanching (well, at least not directly). I think that PT devices have faster turn off due to an extra layer of highly doped Si to help recombine carriers when Vgs drops below Vth. NPT devices are typically more rugged, but also suffer from greater "tail" currents. From what general knowledge i have of semiconductor physics, this doesnt play much roll with avalanche ratings. Of course, i dont know much about how they make newer IGBTs handle avalanching better than the older types.
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Sulaiman
Tue Sept 11 2007, 12:24AM
Sulaiman Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140
OOPS !

Thanks for the correction.

In penance I just went to the semikron website and did a bit of reading;
Apparently the punch-through effect is deliberately employed!
There are Punch-Through igbts 'PT-IGBT'
and non punch through igbts 'NPT-IGBT'
and the first igbts were designed on the PT-IGBT concept. Link2

I assumed that non punch through igbt was a good thing! doh!
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Finn Hammer
Tue Sept 11 2007, 08:17PM
Finn Hammer Registered Member #205 Joined: Sat Feb 18 2006, 11:59AM
Location: Skørping, Denmark
Posts: 741
Steve Conner wrote ...

Hi Finn & Daniel,

I have built some (much smaller) DC-DC converters, and I spent a day fiddling with gate resistors and resistor-diode networks until I found the values that made the MOSFETs run coolest.


If it took you a day, I`l be satisfied if I dial it in, in a week!

Right now 22ohm gate resistors run hot, the snubbers last, and the IGBT`s get very hot.

If I remove the gate resistors, the snubbers evaporate instantly, well almost smile

If I fit 10 ohms gate resistors the snubbers get extremely hot, and the IGBT`s sort of coast along.

I have ordered some 20W non inductive resistors, for the snubbers, and the gates, hope they will last.

What I don`t undestand is why I need snubbers in the first place since there is no current running to interrupt.

CW power electronics, even if it is only 50% dutycycle, is a new challenging world.

Cheers, Finn Hammer
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Steve Ward
Wed Sept 12 2007, 06:12PM
Steve Ward Registered Member #146 Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 04:21AM
Location: Austin Tx
Posts: 1055
Finn, why are you using snubbers? They are 1200V IGBTs running at 650VDC right? Also, what type of snubber are you using? There are 2 ways of doing RCD snubbers, one method discharges the C completely (or nearly) on every cycle while the other discharges it only to "Vcc" on every cycle. Obviously the difference in resistor dissipation can be large. You want to go with the latter, which requires a slightly odd wiring scheme.
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Finn Hammer
Wed Sept 12 2007, 08:03PM
Finn Hammer Registered Member #205 Joined: Sat Feb 18 2006, 11:59AM
Location: Skørping, Denmark
Posts: 741
Steve Ward wrote ...

Finn, why are you using snubbers? They are 1200V IGBTs running at 650VDC right? Also, what type of snubber are you using? There are 2 ways of doing RCD snubbers, one method discharges the C completely (or nearly) on every cycle while the other discharges it only to "Vcc" on every cycle. Obviously the difference in resistor dissipation can be large. You want to go with the latter, which requires a slightly odd wiring scheme.

Steve,
When we started to ramp up the voltage, we noticed bad overshoot, more than 100%, oscillating at 5.8mHz. As you can see on these scopeshots, where green is primary current @ 10A/div, pink is Vbuss @100V/Div.
Notice that current is nicely zero at the voltage step.

]1189624923 205 FT30311 Ring2 1189624947 205 FT30311 Ring1


1200V IGBT`s on a 560V bus would be overvolted at full buss voltage.
That`s why, I am against turning up the voltage against odds. And by that I mean that I have no information about avalanche rating on the bricks that I use: Semikron SKM 400GB124D
Link2

I know that 600V TVS`es might just cut it, and I have ordered 50 of them for a 3*3 array of 200V types across each IGBT. I`l try that out tomorrow when they arrive.

Untill then, I have been experimenting with the type of RCD snubber that has the resistor across the diode: the type that discharges down to Vbuss.
I register rather wild currents through the diode,


1189625954 205 FT30311 Ring3


In this shot, pink is buss voltage @ 10V/Div, green is current trough snubber diode @10A/Div.
This translates into 225A through snubber diode at 600Vbuss.
Undershoot of curve corresponds to Trr 35 uS of the diode: IXYS DSEI 60-06A
Link2

It should be able to handle it, with heatsinks.

But the question remains: why do I get such spikes when I am not interrupting any current.

Cheers, Finn Hammer
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Steve Conner
Wed Sept 12 2007, 09:23PM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
Finn,

I believe what you're seeing is a diode recovery transient. On that funny "buttock shaped" current waveform, the first half-cycle flows in the IGBT, the second half-cycle flows in the associated anti-parallel diode. Once this diode has conducted, it has gained some reverse recovery charge that needs to come out before it can stop conducting again. But the recovery process doesn't actually happen until you try to put a reverse voltage across the diode by turning its opposite IGBT on.

You would think that the recovery charge would just dissipate itself by the time the second half-cycle was over, but in practice, it seems to linger, for several tens of microseconds at least, until you flush it out by forcing a reverse voltage across the junction. The effect of the charge coming out of the diode junction is identical to a brief burst of shoot-through, because that's basically what it is. The diode is a short circuit until the required amount of charge has been extracted from it.

This was the conclusion I came to after a lot of very puzzling experiences in my early playings with IGBTs in the OLTC, and a lot of discussion with Richie.

So this says to me that these IGBTs have fastish, but not soft, recovery diodes in them. The textbook cure for those diode recovery transients is just to turn the IGBTs on slower, as you discovered already frown

PS: Marko, I sent you a couple of PMs, did you not receive them? Is your inbox full?

*edit* I got this from Richie by e-mail:
richie wrote ...
Hi Steve,

I was just reading the thread on 4HV about Finn's SLR inverter. I agree with
all your comments entirely re: switching speed and diode recovery transients.

The only thing that seems strange is that he is trying to turn on the opposing
switch immediately after the first complete current cycle ends. You have all
the time in the world after this point, the only thing you sacrifice is a small
amount of power by introducing deadtime here. You remember the "pulse thinning
out" method of average-current control we talked about?

The beauty of the SLR converter is that the load current waveforms are
sinusoidal with low di/dt. So you're not supposed to get the switching spikes
that occur from rapidly interrupting large currents. In theory IGBT turn-on
occurs at zero current, peak current is high (which IGBTs love anyway! wink),
then the load current smoothly commutates to the co-pack diode at the zero
crossing (so no tail current and diode forward-recovery problems), and finally
the diode has soft turn-off at the end of the cycle due to the slow current
reversal.

There are two actions that I would take to reduce the voltage overshoot problem.
Firstly I would introduce some deadtime so that you know that the IGBT's don't
turn on into partially conducting diodes. And secondly I would slow down the
turn-on speed of the IGBTs. Remember that the load current is a sinewave with
moderate di/dt so the turn-on of the IGBT only needs to be fast enough to
support the instantaneous load current as it rises away from zero. Anything
faster just causes snap-recovery of any conducting diodes and higher di/dt from
shock charging device capacitances.

"Richie's rule of thumb for gate-drives" is that they should be "only just fast
enough!". I usually start trying to switch the devices as quickly as possible,
then increase the turn-on resistance whilst monitoring voltage across the
device, and efficiency of the supply (losses measured by heatsink temperature.)
This has to be done at full load, but can be done at reduced buss voltage if
voltage-overshoots threaten device ratings. As you increase the turn-on time
the voltage spikes due to Ldi/dt fall in amplitude, and reverse-recovery charge
is swept out in a more controlled manner. Loses in the devices initially remain
constant, or often fall (in hard-switched converters) as the turn-on time is
increased. Eventually you reach a maximum efficiency point, then beyond this
losses start to rise again as VI overlap dominates for any further increase in
turn-on time. Allowing for component spread, this is the point where you want
to operate. This process is absolutely vital for modern commercial designs
where they have to meet high power density (efficiency) targets whilst also
meeting incredibly stringent EMI emissions standards. Textbooks that say
switching speeds should be as fast as possible are only telling half the story,
particularly if you're trying to design anything with real components that has
to have a CE mark slapped on the side! Controlling di/dt is the name of the
game.

Finally there is one other thing that can result in a non-linear "shoot-through"
type behaviour in bridges.... When each IGBT is turned on, it must charge the
emitter-collector capacitance of the opposite IGBT and its co-pack diode in
order for its own Vce to collapse. This causes a momentary current spike from
the buss cap down the bridge leg, that shock excites stray inductance in the
loop into ringing. Whilst this effect contributes most to losses when the buss
voltage is maximum (roughly a V-squared dependancy) it is sometimes most
noticeable during bench testing at low buss voltages. The reason is this...
Device capacitances are at their maximum for small applied voltages, and
decrease as the device begins blocking more applied voltage. Ldi/dt voltage
spikes due to these charging currents can appear large relative to the buss
voltage during low voltage testing, but you often find that the *percentage* of
voltage overshoot falls significantly as the buss voltage is increased. What
I'm trying to say is that a 10 volt overshoot on a 40VDC buss during testing,
doesn't necessarily mean that the overshoot will be 100v when the buss voltage
is up at 400VDC.

I don't mind if you forward this Email, and I'd be happy to hear your comments
or experiences.
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Finn Hammer
Thu Sept 13 2007, 01:52PM
Finn Hammer Registered Member #205 Joined: Sat Feb 18 2006, 11:59AM
Location: Skørping, Denmark
Posts: 741
Steve.

In that case, I should see a current surge on the buss, that doesn`t go into the load.

And it is then this current surge that creates a spike, when it is interrupted, as the freewheling diode finally gets reverse biassed, so that the only current path is through the resonant load, which at this instant of time, looks like an open circuit. This could explain the violent power in that spike.

Ok, out goes the transformers to a remote location. I need space for a Pearson current monitor.

Yellow is gate, for timing reference.
Cyan is current into the resonant load, 2A/Div. The "buttoc curve" smile
Green is current in Buss, measured between smoothing caps, 2A/Div
Magenta is voltage across IGBT, 20V/Div.


1189681425 205 FT30311 Shoottrough


Steve, your point has been proven.



Cheers, Finn Hammer
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ragnar
Thu Sept 13 2007, 03:32PM
ragnar Registered Member #63 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
Location:
Posts: 1425
RichieB covers well the point on device capacitance proportionality to voltage. This is something I'd intially overlooked in semiconductor datasheets, but came to appreciate very much in my class-E work.

Output and reverse-transfer capacitances do truly vary wildly as you ramp up the (e.g.) drain voltage. In practise, I try to go up 24V, re-evaluate tuning networks/components/deadtimes -- up 24V, re-evaluate tuning networks/components/deadtimes again, and observe which way the components fluctuate. This is severely unscientific, but does establish some personal heuristics I can use in future work. Simulating is probably more rewarding, if I knew how. =-P
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Finn Hammer
Thu Sept 13 2007, 05:56PM
Finn Hammer Registered Member #205 Joined: Sat Feb 18 2006, 11:59AM
Location: Skørping, Denmark
Posts: 741
I greatly appreciate RichieB`s input, Thanks for posting it.

Adding dead time corresponds to reducing drive frequency and duty cycle.

Have a look at this video, showing the effect on current into load, current in buss, and voltage across IGBT`s, as I sweep the frequency from 45.5kHz to 38.5kHz.
The effect is quite dramatic.
Link2

I just found another , better operating point, at 40.5kHz, where the duty cycle is really too short, but look how nice and calm everything is, as I ramp voltage up to 300Vbuss.
The Tek6021, monitoring current in the buss, saturates at 15A going negative.
Link2

Cheers, Finn Hammer
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