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Registered Member #99
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:10PM
Location: florida, usa
Posts: 637
GreySoul wrote ...
mattrg2 wrote ...
...I understand it all well, but cant calm down come test time. I choke up and my mind gets all foggy!
I used to get BAD testing anxiety. I found that taking a 5mg valium (I had a Rx for it) would help a LOT. I was worried that I'd be all buzzed out on pills, but the opposite was how it went... I was calm and focused and as a result did better - not great - but better.
In the end it was demographics that got to me.... not so much the fundamentals of engineering - but the people in the classes. 50:1 male to female ratio in most classes ... discouraging for a young guy with marginal social skills.
Art school was much better
Hmmm valium...I wonder if my doctor would go for that. The doctors here HATE giving prescriptions! I used to take xanax (had a Rx) due to some anxiety problems, but chose to stop it after hearing people refer to my pills as "xany bars" and begging to get some from me .
I agree that grades are very vague in gauging ones intelligence or ability. There are TONS here that have MUCH better grades than me, yet know zilch about building electrical circuits. I end up helping them out often times(talking PhD students too!). Showed them a schematic to a solid state telsa coil and they just looked at me with a blank stare.
Registered Member #56
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445
I would agree that grades don't necessarily reflect intelligence, although I do believe that they have some merit (besides the whole not flipping burgers for the rest of your life if they aren't up to par).
I view grades as a combination of how hard you teachers are (can't do anything about that), how good you are, and how much time you are willing to spend on something that you know has no 'real' purpose in life. The kids that really don't have much intelligence (I am not going to get into if this is by choice, environment, genetics, etc) obviously score low (mix c's and b's or below), and the ones with an abnormally high amount of intelligence score very high, because they don't have to spend any time on school to get good grades. For the people of normal intelligence, if they are willing (or forced to) spend a large amount of time on school, they do very well, but they end up with very little 'real world' skills. More often that not, they end up spending their time on 'useless' hobbies (watching tv, playing video games, shooting airsoft, whatever) that are fun but still don't give you any skills that will get you anywhere. But there are a few that spend their time on something useful, whatever it may be--and over time can be quite successful with it as long as they do not get side tracked. The above average intelligence people (between normal and supergenius) can get the best of both worlds, doing well in school (perhaps even having a decent social life) and perusing a time intensive hobby--but again most of the time they end up watching tv or playing videogames and all but wasting their gift. But the category that worries me the most are the people that have a hobby that shows they are capable of extraordinary things--but are barely passing school because they 'aren't being challenged' or 'don't think it is important', etc. Sure, you are never going to need to know what year hitler's cousins brother died or how to calculate the area of a triangle by taking the determinant of the matrix containing its vertices's (do forget to divide by 2 :p), but that isn't the reason it is being taught to you. IMHO, most of what you learn after the 5th grade (the 'explaratory' classes that schools don't offer anymore being the main exception) is there to teach you to suck it up and take whatever they throw at you, since once you become a working citizen that is what you are going to have to do. Some might even say that school teaches you useless skills specifically because they are useless, as to weed out the people that refuse to do pointless tasks (and are obviously not suited to work at my company...)
Registered Member #690
Joined: Tue May 08 2007, 03:47AM
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 616
I've got a solid 3.1 going in high school, 3.7 weighted (AP Chem kicks ass!). I feel kind of like Dave Marshall does, in that I'm a great test taker, fives on all my AP tests, 1350 out of 1600 SAT (1980 if you count writing), 99th percentile Chemistry Subject Test, but I kind of don't do homework.
A lot of people who know the system have told me that test scores are much more valuable than class grades, because the tests don't lie, but teachers can love you, they can hate you, and they can adjust your grade accordingly, even unintentionally.
Also since I'm going for electrical engineering in college, I'm hoping my HV stuff will give me a big jump-start. Does anyone actually know how much Tesla Coils and Coil guns and other such things are valued in the college circuit? I mean, will the admissions people be like, "Holy sh*t, this kids a freakin' genius! I bet he could really put us on the map!", or will they say "Oh great, another kid with a tesla coil, yea just throw it on the pile with all the others, I'll look at it after my break."
Registered Member #99
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:10PM
Location: florida, usa
Posts: 637
Shaun wrote ...
I've got a solid 3.1 going in high school, 3.7 weighted (AP Chem kicks ass!). I feel kind of like Dave Marshall does, in that I'm a great test taker, fives on all my AP tests, 1350 out of 1600 SAT (1980 if you count writing), 99th percentile Chemistry Subject Test, but I kind of don't do homework.
A lot of people who know the system have told me that test scores are much more valuable than class grades, because the tests don't lie, but teachers can love you, they can hate you, and they can adjust your grade accordingly, even unintentionally.
Also since I'm going for electrical engineering in college, I'm hoping my HV stuff will give me a big jump-start. Does anyone actually know how much Tesla Coils and Coil guns and other such things are valued in the college circuit? I mean, will the admissions people be like, "Holy sh*t, this kids a freakin' genius! I bet he could really put us on the map!", or will they say "Oh great, another kid with a tesla coil, yea just throw it on the pile with all the others, I'll look at it after my break."
As far as tesla coiling goes, my department (electrical engineering) told all of us in 1st year engineering that they dont care at all if you can build things, or like to tinker and "think" your smart. All they care about are your grades and classes. Pretty closed minded if you ask me! But they are the ones I must coax into handing me that special piece of paper!The associate dean thought I was crazy for "playing with high voltage"
As to test taking, I dont think any test can accurately determine one's grasp of a subject. Psychology comes into play and some people (me) are HORRIBLE test takers. We tend to excel at other methods of proving what we learned. Unfortunatley, college doesnt care if you "suck" at taking tests....
Registered Member #63
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
Location:
Posts: 1425
The testing seems pretty straightforward to me -- there are so many opportunities to learn it, and so many people who will help if you have trouble, it really comes down to personal commitment.
Registered Member #30
Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
Wow guys, I see you stumbled on the age-old debate about what exams actually test, and whether it's actually relevant to life. And whether you get extra marks for having a Tesla coil.
The answer is that test results are relevant to your career and your life, not because they actually mean anything in themselves (IQ tests are a case in point - what the hell do they actually measure? - your ability to spot the odd one out in a bunch of weird shapes? and what practical use is that?) but because society decided that's the way it's going to be. When you apply for a job in science or engineering, people ask about your qualifications. If you flunk your BSEE or BEng or whatever, you could have trouble getting into those cool R&D jobs at NASA or Google that you probably want. I'm not saying that that's right, or fair. I'm just saying that's the way it is.
Personally, I got A's all through high school without trying too hard, but I started to find it harder when I got to university. I didn't have much of a social life (I'm only beginning to get one now!) and I got ill a lot, probably from stress. I always found the maths hardest of all, and I once got 25% in a math exam, but in the end I managed to keep it together and graduate with honours.
Do you get extra marks for having a Tesla coil? I'm not sure. My experience of an engineering degree was that it was all about theory, and practical skills weren't rated too highly. I think they are training people not to build stuff, but to calculate what other people should build. I remember asking our course organisers why we didn't get more practical work, and the answer was: "We're not training you to be engineers, we're training you to be managers of engineers"
And in practice, in industry that is often the way it works. You can't build a new type of jet fighter all by yourself, try to fly it, and if pieces fall off go back and make it stronger. If pieces fall off, you die. You have to work with a team of engineers to calculate and simulate a million mind-numbing things, and draw thousands of blueprints (and CAD files nowadays) that will be given to a factory to actually make the thing.
However, the hands-on approach often works great for smaller things, like lab instruments or race cars. I have good hands-on skills, so I tended to end up in these kinds of projects where you actually get your hands dirty. I have seen some amazing stuff built by people who say they "think with their hands". When they want to make something, they don't sit down and draw plans: they grab the parts and a welding torch, and try to put them together.
This is often how hobby projects like Tesla coils are made, and it's an example of a kind of intelligence that tests are poor at measuring. However, if you took 100 guys like this, gave them 50 tons of aluminium and asked them to make an airliner, I'd predict total disaster. I guess that is why I made the effort to go to university and learn all the nasty math stuff.
So to sum up, I think that if you have any sort of intelligence no matter if exams measure it or not, society will reward you in some way for it. But if you can bear to be tested by college exams, it will open some very cool doors for you in science.
Registered Member #56
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445
I would say that, at least for us youngins, the 'hands on' experience defiantly plays a part in you life--it may not get you into school be it should help keep you out of flipping burgers. Case in point, the job I currently have (doing r&d and building THz class spectrometers) I got because out of all the applications they got (most of them from jr/sr's in college, I was a sophomore in high school when I got the job) I was chosen because I have built rockets, programmed microprocessors, built computers, used a torch, can pick up a screw and know that is is a stainless #4-40 .375" long caphead, etc. They could care less about my grades, even the eagle scout didn't really get their attention. That same experience has also earned me an offer for a job working on of of the proff's lab at UCSB should I end up attending there... Heck, right now at home I am being paid to do r&d for a friend of mine to build an amp for them.
Registered Member #146
Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 04:21AM
Location: Austin Tx
Posts: 1055
Does anyone actually know how much Tesla Coils and Coil guns and other such things are valued in the college circuit? I mean, will the admissions people be like, "Holy sh*t, this kids a freakin' genius! I bet he could really put us on the map!", or will they say "Oh great, another kid with a tesla coil, yea just throw it on the pile with all the others, I'll look at it after my break."
I dont know, but i included a link to my website on my application (and i did get into a top engineering school). It was more likely that they saw a 3.8 GPA from jr. college and figured i might stand a chance.
As of yet, i have seen almost no support for my hobbies at this school. I mention what i do to my counselor, and he could care less. The thing is, most of the faculty *does not care* unless its something that will advance the cutting edge of technology. They care about their own little projects and not the student's. Id also guess that about 75% of students (and faculty) do not do anything hands on (aside from programming) at this school. We do actually have some fantastic project classes, and even a pretty well stocked electronics store in the basement, but it really is a select few that use it. So some prof's really do appreciate the hands-on stuff, but most of them dont care one bit.
To many of us, this is really odd, because we thrive on looking at what other people are building, it inspires us to make other cooler stuff. Many of us suitably want to be engineers (to continue to build stuff, right?!) but the sad thing is, most engineers don't know how to *build* stuff. Take for example the house i live in: one guy is a general engineer, another aerospace engineer, another computer science, yet none of them have any hobbies in these areas.
I really don't know what to make of it all, but it really does make me appreciate the existence of this forum!
Registered Member #99
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:10PM
Location: florida, usa
Posts: 637
Steve Ward wrote ...
I really don't know what to make of it all, but it really does make me appreciate the existence of this forum!
I will drink to that!
On a side note, I did sorta get some help due to "hands on" tinkering now that I think about it. I met(my senior year in High School) with a research scientist that is also a proffesor at my school (FSU) and did some stuff with him reguarding cancer research. Low and behold, despite my SAT score being too low for my engineering school's standards (just a tad too low), this guy had me admitted as a regualr full time electrical engineering major, completely BYPASSING PRE-ENGINEERING! (Here at FSU, one has to do calc1-2, Physics 1, Chem.1 and Pre-Engineering lab to even THINK of being an engineer). If it wasnt for the level of math involved in the REAL engineering classes, I could have skipped all these pre-engineering classes (which I didnt). Im set to begin real engineering classes very soon, after asshatting around and getting a BA in classics.
Registered Member #63
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
Location:
Posts: 1425
The 'vernier eyeballs' that one develops after lots of design and deconstruction is really handy. In all the places I've worked, just about everybody really appreciates having somebody they can come and ask about 'where exactly to get X/Y/Z bit/thingo that nobody actually knows what it's called'.
I'd guess most people here could tell the difference between 3/32" and M2.5, or 1/8" and M3 without a set of calipers. That's handy!
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What kinds of grades did you guys get in school?
. 
Pretty closed minded if you ask me! But they are the ones I must coax into handing me that special piece of paper!The associate dean thought I was crazy for "playing with high voltage"
