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Conundrum

Tue Jun 17 2014, 06:28PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062

Interesting.
Is it true that the Plant'e cell is not actually patented?
If so then do Yuasa and Cyclon actually not have the right to sue people making generic wound lead-acid cells using more modern electronics and plastic based casings but based on pure lead/bismuth tech for lower cost?
A Pb/acid nanofilm AA would be useful even if say 1.8V and 3AH just for solar lamps.

Patrick

Tue Jun 17 2014, 08:13PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Carbon_Rod wrote ...

@Patrick
We were alluding to CEO Elon Musk releasing IP related to EV chargers.
It is very uncommon for a company to give away a competitive advantage.

of, I was trying to figure out if you meant him or me.

Steve Conner

Wed Jun 18 2014, 07:38AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Pretty sure the lead-acid battery isn't patented. If it ever was, the patent must have expired long ago as it is a 120 year old invention and patents only last for a limited time.

I'm not sure if Tesla Motors have any particularly exciting IP either.

The only EV related IP that impressed me at all lately was AC Propulsion's "reductive charging" system that reuses the inverter and motor windings as a boost PFC for charging. You basically get a high powered charger for free in terms of space, weight and cost. Tesla bought out AC Propulsion so hopefully this forms part of the IP that is being "opened".

I'm also somewhat suspicious of the claim to "open our patents". While it seems to be basically a good thing for the EV world, it doesn't really mean anything by itself. Are Tesla prepared to license the patents to other companies for free? Or is it just a gentleman's agreement not to take legal action against infringers? Or maybe they will let the patents expire and not bother to renew them? If I were a patent lawyer for a rival maker of EVs I would want the licensing agreement in writing.

I think what is basically going on is that there is currently no standard for fast charging stations and Tesla would like to see the Supercharger adopted, as it would give Tesla owners lots more places to plug in. They are giving up an IP advantage to gain a network effect.

Ash Small

Wed Jun 18 2014, 08:32AM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Does anyone have a link to the relevant LIDAR patent that we're presumably discussing here?

EDIT: I had a quick look at the NEATO link posted above, I don't see how it applies to a 'drone' that, by law, has to be under 'line of sight' control of the 'pilot', if that is what we're discussing.

Surely, when discussing patents, we have to keep it specific, rather than generalize?

I've looked at this

Maybe I've answered my own question, but surely we need to be more specific here, rather than discussing generalizations.

This reminds me of the experiment we did in the physics lab at school to measure the speed of light using spinning mirrors.

Fizeauâ€“Foucault apparatus:

The Wikipedia page on LIDAR does not mention, or link to, any relevant patents, that I can see.

"Lidar was developed in the early 1960s, shortly after the invention of the laser, and combined the laser focused imaging with the radar ability to calculate distances by measuring the time for the signal to return."

If it WAS patented in the early sixties, surely any relevant patents have already expired?

EDIT: I know the thread title and OP asks general questions about patents, but as far as this application of LIDAR goes, surely we should be discussing specifics?

Uspring

Wed Jun 18 2014, 12:37PM

Registered Member #3988 Joined: Thu Jul 07 2011, 03:25PM
Location:
Posts: 711

Sadly the whole industry is scared stiff by the well publicized court battles between e.g. Apple/Samsung.
A competitor considering legal action will consider 2 questions:
a) Will our own sales be affected?
b) How much money can you squeeze out by litigation?
Wrt to a) you would have to find out, if somebody tries to do what you attempt in the same way. Wrt to b), your startup would have to grow large enough. That will take some time.
Probably LIDAR is too old to still be patented by itself. Particular implementations might well be. So you have 2 options:
a) Take a finished LIDAR product, maybe disassemble it and incorporate it into your own product. That is safe but possibly expensive.
b) Create your own implementation. You can let yourself be guided by others, but use different components, add some ideas of your own and write your own software.

Ash Small

Wed Jun 18 2014, 02:56PM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

I've had some more thoughts on this. from Wikipedia:

"Lidar (also written LIDAR or LiDAR) is a remote sensing technology that measures distance by illuminating a target with a laser and analyzing the reflected light. Although widely considered to be an acronym of LIght Detection And Ranging, the term lidar was actually created as a portmanteau of "light" and "radar.""

LIDAR was invented in the sixties, RADAR in the forties(?). Most RADAR I've seen rotate, and produce a 'map' of their surroundings. LIDAR only differs from RADAR because it uses a shorter wavelength of EM radiation. (as far cas the 'basic principle' is concerned)

It seems to me that all the patent stuff is just semantics.

For example, for a quad, for example, you don't need the range obtainable with RADAR, and the shorter wavelength of LIDAR is more accurate at shorter distances. The LIDAR has sufficient range for this purpose, so it's an obvious choice in these circumstances.

Conundrum

Thu Jun 19 2014, 06:04AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062

I had an idea a while back for a new type of cell, based on modification of Mg-ion tech.

Actually have plans here for a prototype, the idea is really simple but uses existing materials constructed in a novel way using a 3D printer.

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