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Giant Wimshurst Machine - could use some guidance

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AwesomeMatt

Thu Jun 12 2014, 10:38PM

Registered Member #4454 Joined: Sun Feb 26 2012, 12:47AM
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 74

wrote ...
Going back to your OP, you've been 'brought in on a team'.

Was originally how they phrased it.

The build "team" is me.

I started off answering some HV and technical questions about the build. For example, they were really concerned about nearby carpet (because carpets cause static!) and about grounding, (how thick does the rubber mat they are standing on need to be so that it's safe for children to touch the machine?), and other things that kinda red flagged their knowledge of electricity in context was quite poor.

Then they said they needed to get it done quick, and asked if I was interested in showing up in person to join the build team. So I said I couldn't spare many hours, but sure.

The team was... me.

One other guy ran the Shopbot, but other than that, every nut and bolt has been me. Their shop guy quit right before I was brought in, there was no one build anything, and everyone else had their own work to do.

So, my "team" was really just "The people who wanted it done (people working there)" and "The people getting it done (me only)." They told me how big they wanted it and the spark gap to be and did a little bit of the shopping but that's it. Most days I was in the shop I didn't have any communication beyond "Good morning" and rolling progress updates.

Oh, and I conned a friend with delicate ladyfingers to do the tracing and cutting of all the sectors for me.

Me keeping the prototype isn't leverage. It has no value to me (I'd donate it to the local hackerspace), and it has no value to them. It's taking up room in their shop, I'd be doing them a favor.

They needed the prototype for:

1 - Proof of concept, can a machine that size get arcs that size.
2 - Demo, how does it look in the gallery they're putting it in, does it fit there.
3 - Measurements/values and building materials, build plan, etc for the fab lab to copy.

The day I got it working they're basically done with it. I sent them all the documentation I'd figured out on it, not just for this size but any size, a week ago.

I was gong to be unveiling the prototype at the local Makerfaire in a couple months, but, that'll just be advertising for them, so, probably not doing that anymore.

Ehn. I haven't gone in to talk to them yet, but, it's okay. I'd rather this thread not turn into a bitchy one, so far it's been interesting to anyone in terms of a project log. I appreciate the concern, but I only vented as an explanation of why there might not be any more updates. Let's let the thread stay as positive and drama-free as possible.

I'm going to pick up my tools today. If there are more updates in the next while I'll post them.

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Fri Jun 13 2014, 03:28AM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

I'm not trying to dramatize the thread, I'm just trying to point out that many of use get "used" for these types of projects, and it usually means that we get the bill.

Antonio

Sat Jun 14 2014, 09:37PM

Registered Member #834 Joined: Tue Jun 12 2007, 10:57PM
Location: Brazil
Posts: 644

An interesting video showing several machines, including a large sectorless machine. Several construction ideas can be seen. The "Leyden jars" appear to be series associations of commercial high-voltage capacitors. The sectorless machines use just a small area at the edge of the disks. One machine takes charge just from the frontal disk.

Newton Brawn

Sun Jun 15 2014, 02:47AM

Registered Member #3343 Joined: Thu Oct 21 2010, 04:06PM
Location: Toronto
Posts: 311

Hi !

Very interesting.
The Leiden Jars are made of unusual construction,
How is it made ?
Ceramic capacitors in oil inmersion ?
A MMC ?

Patrick

Sun Jun 15 2014, 03:26AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

yep we get used, ive had a person seek me out for a build here on the forum, and two on another forum, even signed NDA's. but i never got ripped off, only becuase i refused to work or by parts unless i got the parts-they got the bill. but alot of companies and individuals "scout" those of us here on the internet forums, just for the talent, then their end falls through. probly due to there incompetence.

Antonio

Sun Jun 15 2014, 04:37PM

Registered Member #834 Joined: Tue Jun 12 2007, 10:57PM
Location: Brazil
Posts: 644

Newton Brawn wrote ...

The Leiden Jars are made of unusual construction,
How is it made ?
Ceramic capacitors in oil inmersion ?
A MMC ?

Apparently series of doorknob capacitors immersed in oil.

AwesomeMatt

Thu Jun 26 2014, 01:09AM

Registered Member #4454 Joined: Sun Feb 26 2012, 12:47AM
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 74

Update:

I'm not going to say every way I've been treated has been on the up and up... but... finally had a discussion today and seems like, it was a misunderstanding. It's not settled, there are some (I believe) genuine accounting snafus that will take a while to resolve in a way that ends well for me, but it seems to be headed in the right direction so I'm being patient.

It's mostly been certain people who should have been kept informed (by the people I worked with) were not informed, etc etc. Which means decisions for them would have been made differently, which means the decisions I made would have been made differently, and so on.

I am again returned to "cautiously optimistic."

But enough bs and drama, you guys don't care. Here's the good stuff: I'm going in tomorrow to hopefully finish the Leyden jars and get some wicked sparks out of it. If things go sour again, at least I'll have enjoyed the experience of some indoor lightning.

Eleccentric

Thu Jun 26 2014, 04:49AM

Registered Member #33460 Joined: Tue Aug 27 2013, 06:23PM
Location: Seattle
Posts: 46

I think it's a safe bet that anyone who tried to help you with this project does care about how you were treated. That's what was first on my mind when I saw you'd posted to this thread again.

The big sparks are an aftereffect, albeit a really cool one. I look forward to your next post.

AwesomeMatt

Thu Jun 26 2014, 10:46PM

Registered Member #4454 Joined: Sun Feb 26 2012, 12:47AM
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 74

Well... wtf.

Good: Paperwork is signed according to what was agreed.

Better: Leyden jars are done... ish.

Bad: The machine doesn't work. At all. Even a little bit. Even 3 steps back.

...

So in the last 2 weeks, it's just sat. I put up a sign saying not to touch it, doesn't look like anyone touched it, everyone says they were scared to go near it.

1 - With Leyden Jars... spun it for a good 2 minutes.. nothing.

2 - Without Leyden Jars (same as the last day I worked on it)... nothing. No sparks. Not even 1/2".

3 - Without combs.... nothing. No corona, no hiss, no ozone, no sparks, no static, nothing. There used to be.

Other symptoms:

- Belts are way looser (hose that's been left stretched for 2 weeks). Still turns fine.

- Seems a lot easier to crank. Maybe because belts are so loose they stretch when I start up, and because there's not huge amounts of tension to overcome all the time. Or maybe because it's not doing anything. Actually seems easier to turn than before I hooked up the neutralizer bars too, so, not sure if that's me or not.

What I've done:

- Washed/wiped the sectors with alcohol.
- Adjusted neutralizer bars to a less vertical X.
- Made sure neutralizer bars are touching and the brushes are touching the sectors.

...

I dun goofed. What am I missing?

Only thing I can think of is that it's a bit warmer in here, maybe more humid because of the rain as of late (no different than two weeks ago in terms of moisture), but, I'm still in a high elevation city with mostly a borderingly desert climate.

I think I'm going to take the night and think on it... I'm utterly baffled. Maybe rebuild the neutralizer bars from scratch in case the carbon fiber brushes are contaminated with Alum Oxide?

Eleccentric

Thu Jun 26 2014, 11:51PM

Registered Member #33460 Joined: Tue Aug 27 2013, 06:23PM
Location: Seattle
Posts: 46

If you can, reduce the separation between the discs. Also, make sure that when a sector is under a neutralizer brush, that it is aligned with a sector on the opposite disc.

Any chance that the backsides of the discs have become dusty?

If it is the humidity, you could try hitting the thing with a space heater for a while, which will work especially well if you can cover the whole thing in a tent of drop cloth. The biggest risk is softening the acrylic.

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