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Registered Member #4454
Joined: Sun Feb 26 2012, 12:47AM
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 74
Progress pics. Because few people want to read walls of text.
The crossed belt. That's the spot where it rubs. Not a big deal.
Lower axle assembly. Note how I'm completely ignoring the big pulleys and the flat pulleys. 6" pulley, dual-belt drive, and sailing away from my problems.
Neutralizer bar #1. Spaced with 2x4, held in place with those zipties that have a screw hole at the end. Stays put and doesn't wobble now.
Neutralizer bar #2. Couldn't put it in the same place or use the same arrangement because the PVC brace to the output electrodes is in the way, and, since the belt is offset (pillow block bearings are mounted off to one side, not middle), this one needs more angle. No problem. Also note where the belt makes an X.
See the white plate? Clever little idea the new shop guy came up with. A lot less friction between rubber and smooth plastic than rubber on rubber. Should cut down on belt wear, for the... oh.. 60 minutes of runtime this prototype will ever see in its life.
Carbon fiber brushes! 60 ohms per cm. Fantastico!
Also did a lot of design work so I'm not figuring things out under the pressure of also doing them that day.
Tomorrow To Do:
Leyden Jars:
- Fold tape over inside, attach to chain with slack. - Fill bottom with sand for weight (electrical issues?) - Cut acrylic plate & hot glue bottom cap? - PVC glue bottom and top. - Top pivot will be unsoldered copper, two elbow with a lever to contact the comb bar. - Make a chicken stick - Make a safety chain (gator clip to short out jar when not in use in case it self-recharges). - Disarm plug between caps along ground.
Neutralizers:
- Question: Do they have to be at the same angle? Right now they're not, one is a few degrees off the one on the other disc. - Dice up carbon fiber brushes and alum foil onto bars. - Extend pipe lengths (they're a bit far for the brushes to reach).
Combs:
- Replace with CF? - Build comb #2
Electrodes:
- Anchoring idea tried and failed today, not sure how to secure them when mounted. - Rubber bands at pivot? Ghetto but should work? - Fill with sand, tape off, for balance. - Ziptie anchors onto pole and post, then use rope/string tie-offs to hold at angle.
Discs:
- Disassemble axle, brace, reach inside and rip protective covering off? Already looks way better just with the outside few inches gone.
It's a lot of work but I think I already know how to do most of it.
Registered Member #33460
Joined: Tue Aug 27 2013, 06:23PM
Location: Seattle
Posts: 46
You're soooo close! And, once you take the backing off the discs it will look gorgeous
Counter balancing the discharge electrodes will probably work best, so they'll stay in position with some amount of friction at their pivots.
Sand in your Leyden jars will probably be OK, but there are two things to consider. First, the makeup of the sand - the closer to straight silica the better, I think. Second, sparks will track over a surface considerably longer than they will through open air, but since you already have the surface of the PVC in play, this might not be an issue at all.
Registered Member #4454
Joined: Sun Feb 26 2012, 12:47AM
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 74
Well, new security rules passed on from the bigwigs (not the people I deal with). Because I'm not staff, I'm not allowed to be in the building unless someone's in the room supervising me. I guess the fear is after dumping 200 hours in 2 weeks and a few hundred dollars of my own cash into their project, which I've done basically on a handshake agreement, I might turn a bad leaf and decide to start vandalizing the place without anyone to guard me.
Considering I'm available late afternoons and evenings... that cuts my shop time down to an hour or two a day.
Oh well, I guess that's more important than their deadline.
Progress:
- Recut depth-wise pipes on the neutralizer bars, spaced for brushes. - Cut brushes. - Alum taped brushes to neutralizer bars, ready to test and....
Kicked out.
It's still daylight out! I'm going to go relax and enjoy the first evening I've had free in a long time :)
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
The 'Big Wigs' don't like you doing allnighters alone, it goes against every health and safety rule in the book. You are dealing with lethal voltages here, not to mention everything else.....Yes, I know it's the amps that kill.........I bet their insurance doesn't allow it.
Registered Member #4454
Joined: Sun Feb 26 2012, 12:47AM
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 74
wrote ... The 'Big Wigs' don't like you doing allnighters alone, it goes against every health and safety rule in the book.
Nope, not that. I told them from the start that I would not be operating the machine without someone who knows CPR nearby and another person to call an ambulance. My rules, not theirs. They're (office people, not people I deal with) insistent that it's safe enough for the final version to only need a railing, not an enclosure, despite my insistence that if a kid grabs a Leyden jar while it's charged it'll kill them.
I also had company during the allnighter, which was a 1-time thing to push for their deadline.
I asked if I was okay if I did assembly work at a desk in the non-shop lab where staff are allowed to work alone. Nope. Asked if I could do design work on my laptop, nothing physical. Nope. Not even allowed if someone else is in the room, unless they're specifically assigned to supervising me.
Zebra priorities.
I've done almost all of this with zero paperwork beyond a background check to make sure I'm not a pedophile (confirmed, I'm not). I'll consider that an accomplishment in itself, this place is infamous for it's fortress of red tape and bureaucratic dragons lurking in offices.
Time to whip out the letterheads and forms signed in triplicate.
Registered Member #834
Joined: Tue Jun 12 2007, 10:57PM
Location: Brazil
Posts: 644
Some notes:
Leyden jars with bottom glued: Probably will fail soon, if not immediately. A seal with hot glue between the tubes and bottom caps may work, but must be very well made. Any imperfection will be a weak point.
Fix the jars firmly to the structure. No need of ballast.
It's better to have the neutralizers adjustable, to look for the best position for the desired spark length. If the angle is too high the machine does not work. If too low it sparks across the disks and neutralizers.
The neutralizers brushes must touch the disks very lightly, or the sectors and disks will be damaged. If the printer brushes are too short, you may try to fix them at the end of flexible wires or springs (last resource). If the contacts are not perfect the machine may not start. Thin nickel-chrome wires from wirewound resistors work well, but eventually break. Thin steel wire works too, but I don't know if it is easy to find. Copper leaves black stains.
The charge collector combs can be made with the carbon brushes too. Just leave them at some distance of the disks. If an accidental touch happens (will happen) no damage will result.
The usual method for fixing the terminals so they can rotate is to attach them to the tubes that make the conductors to the charge collectors with large fended metal plugs.
Remove the protective cover from the disks. Be careful about how you keep their separation. I like to use fiber washers lubricated with paraffin. Metal washers damage the disks.
The small pulleys driving the disks will slip with the machine charged. The torque required to keep the large charged disks turning is not small.
About kids (or adults) turning cranks: You will see that most people do not know how to turn a crank.
Registered Member #4454
Joined: Sun Feb 26 2012, 12:47AM
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 74
wrote ... Leyden jars with bottom glued: Probably will fail soon, if not immediately. A seal with hot glue between the tubes and bottom caps may work, but must be very well made. Any imperfection will be a weak point.
Well, I'll just use 5x as much hot glue as I think necessary. I'd use silicone, but I'm impatient. (rtv silicone takes 24h to cure).
wrote ... It's better to have the neutralizers adjustable, to look for the best position for the desired spark length. If the angle is too high the machine does not work. If too low it sparks across the disks and neutralizers.
Well, I guess I can change it with shims, but, without redesigning it, it works well enough as-is.
How high is too high, and how will I know it is too high or approaching too high? Do mine look to be too high?
High is better, generally, yes?
wrote ... The neutralizers brushes must touch the disks very lightly, or the sectors and disks will be damaged.
I tweaked them and they work great now. Just barely touching, no rubbing. Way better than brass shim stock.
wrote ... Thin steel wire works too, but I don't know if it is easy to find.
Moot point, but, I make chainmaille. I have steel in a dozen wire gauges. Brass in 4 or 5, bronze in a few, etc etc.
(Just one particular order).
My niche is the tiny stuff:
(46g copper, 0.0015").
wrote ... The usual method for fixing the terminals so they can rotate is to attach them to the tubes that make the conductors to the charge collectors with large fended metal plugs.
I didn't have long enough nylon. I'll have to make some plugs inside I guess (nut and bolt).
wrote ... Be careful about how you keep their separation. I like to use fiber washers lubricated with paraffin.
I'm using a pair of nylon washers 1/4" thick. Maybe 1/2" thick each, I forget. Probably 1" total separation, so, yeah.
wrote ... The small pulleys driving the disks will slip with the machine charged. The torque required to keep the large charged disks turning is not small.
So far I didn't notice any torque difference, but I didn't charge it up that high (more on that in the next post).
Registered Member #4454
Joined: Sun Feb 26 2012, 12:47AM
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 74
wrote ... Leyden jars with bottom glued: Probably will fail soon, if not immediately. A seal with hot glue between the tubes and bottom caps may work, but must be very well made. Any imperfection will be a weak point.
Well, I'll just use 5x as much hot glue as I think necessary. I'd use silicone, but I'm impatient. (rtv silicone takes 24h to cure).
wrote ... It's better to have the neutralizers adjustable, to look for the best position for the desired spark length. If the angle is too high the machine does not work. If too low it sparks across the disks and neutralizers.
Well, I guess I can change it with shims, but, without redesigning it, it works well enough as-is.
How high is too high, and how will I know it is too high or approaching too high? Do mine look to be too high?
High is better, generally, yes?
wrote ... The neutralizers brushes must touch the disks very lightly, or the sectors and disks will be damaged.
I tweaked them and they work great now. Just barely touching, no rubbing. Way better than brass shim stock.
wrote ... Thin steel wire works too, but I don't know if it is easy to find.
Moot point, but, I make chainmaille. I have steel in a dozen wire gauges. Brass in 4 or 5, bronze in a few, etc etc.
(Just one particular order).
My niche is the tiny stuff:
(46g copper, 0.0015").
wrote ... The usual method for fixing the terminals so they can rotate is to attach them to the tubes that make the conductors to the charge collectors with large fended metal plugs.
I didn't have long enough nylon. I'll have to make some plugs inside I guess (nut and bolt).
wrote ... Be careful about how you keep their separation. I like to use fiber washers lubricated with paraffin.
I'm using a pair of nylon washers 1/4" thick. Maybe 1/2" thick each, I forget. Probably 1" total separation, so, yeah.
wrote ... The small pulleys driving the disks will slip with the machine charged. The torque required to keep the large charged disks turning is not small.
So far I didn't notice any torque difference, but I didn't charge it up that high (more on that in the next post).
Progress: (SPOILER - BIG PROGRESS)
- Attached neutralizer brushes. - Test assembled brushes, adjusted to avoid rubbing.
- Crank test. Expected to hear static, smell ozone, feel resistance change. - Static and ozone, no noticeable torque difference when charged. - Reassembled comb/inner electrode #1. - Modified comb/inner electrode #2, rebuilt from scratch designed for carbon fiber instead, mounted to output poles.
- Disassembled old outer electrode assemblies, reassembled new ones. - Attached cabling system to control electrodes. - Test spin, adjusted to avoid rubbing. - Crank test, expected to hear static, watching for which combs work better... - ... Leapfrog progress. It's already snapping through the sparkgap!
- Accidentally touched one electrode. Good news, it just hurts, not fatal. - Purposefully touched electrodes, noted that it slows spark rate on the poles. Painful *&* detrimental. - Tested spark limitations. Max of about 8". Spinning wheel faster delivers slightly faster zap rate, but, past a certain point does nothing. - Called it quits before making Leyden jars, which will probably fail. Wanted to end on a high note.
Gap is 3.5" or so. I adjust it in the video to about 8" before it stops arcing. No Leyden jars/caps hooked up at all yet.
Should I be concerned that it stops zapping after 8"? Too many sources of leaks? Or should I not worry until I get some Leyden jars put on there?
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Giant Wimshurst Machine - could use some guidance
