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Students dropping out of STEM (science,technology,engineering,mathematics)

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klugesmith

Fri Jul 12 2013, 07:10PM

Registered Member #2099 Joined: Wed Apr 29 2009, 12:22AM
Location: Los Altos, California
Posts: 1716

Anybody else see this on slashdot?
Math and Science Popular With Students Until They Realize They're Hard

Thomas W

Sat Jul 13 2013, 12:28AM

Registered Member #3324 Joined: Sun Oct 17 2010, 06:57PM
Location:
Posts: 1276

I myself am guilty of this, i dropped all science and maths at AS level,
have picked up A2 electronics and 2 year BTEC engineering course however, should be more suited to me.

Carbon_Rod

Sat Jul 13 2013, 06:25AM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

People may not necessarily be avoiding the Sciences, but some people are getting smarter at manipulating the meritocracy. When studying at university, I remember competing with kids who purchased the "hard" courses' teaching manuals with the regulated final standards in å®˜è©± for $18.53. However, anyone would likely bend the rules to win the scholarships if they paid almost double for tuition.

I remember the professors would ramp up the difficulty of the entire curriculum to accommodate the almost omniscient â€œtalentedâ€ students...

However, the real A level students have the odd ability to maintain grades whether they attend the classes or not.

Currently, anyone we bring on must prove they can do the work in the interview room, and we don't even bother reading the CV until this stage is completed. It seems 80% of recent grads fail a simple test for what they should already know.

Ash Small

Sat Jul 13 2013, 08:54AM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

I agree, if you can 'talk the talk', you'll get the job.

I have no qualifications at all, except an 'A' level in physics (which, incidentally, I sat without 'doing the syllabus'), I've dropped out of several 'higher' courses due to financial reasons, etc. (never because the work was 'too hard'), but was always able to get work because I was able to demonstrate that I understood what was required at the interview stage.

I've also worked alongside plenty of people who had paper qualifications, but who were completely clueless.

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Tue Jul 16 2013, 03:21AM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

I think what is happening, besides a "brain drain", is that students are suffering from "instant gratification" and "defeatism."

1. The brain drain - marginalized classes in high school that have stripped down classes that teach hardly anything, or are so narrowly focused on the
teacher's preference, that the studends become lithargic.
I would have spent time in an electronics class over Biology any day, but my HS didn't provide for that, and I was extremely bored.

2. Instant gratification - well, we all know that we want an A grade, so we can go blow stuff up and do our hobbies

3. Defeatism - How many students will stick-it-out when things become hard. My brother quit mechanical engineering because he wasn't instantly successful. My friend's younger brother went into business school because engineering was too hard. And a good friend of mine is a technician because he didn't want to have to deal with engineering math.

I always did poorly in math, but I made it through differential equations, it just took a long time since I'm a bit on the slow side, but I stuck it out because I always wanted to be an engineer. I have always had "The Knack", as the Dilbert cartoon put it, and it would be a waste if I didn't struggle though.

It is most unfortunate that many do not want to struggle-through to a goal now, the destination is worth the price, and the knowledge itself is priceless.

Uspring

Tue Jul 16 2013, 10:39AM

Registered Member #3988 Joined: Thu Jul 07 2011, 03:25PM
Location:
Posts: 711

Carbon Rod wrote:

However, the real A level students have the odd ability to maintain grades whether they attend the classes or not.

Possibly they picked up the skills as kids tinkering with their hobbies.

Pinky's Brain

Wed Jul 24 2013, 01:29PM

Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
Location:
Posts: 837

One problem is that high school is just so trivial ... even in countries which still have multiple levels of high school education depending on aptitude.

The level of self-motivation necessary to actually learn at the same rate in high school as you will be forced to in a decent technical college is beyond most people ... hell, you could just increase college by 1 or 2 years and do it all in one at that point.

By the time most people get to college they are ruined by bad habits.

Steve Ward

Mon Aug 12 2013, 06:51AM

Registered Member #146 Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 04:21AM
Location: Austin Tx
Posts: 1055

Possibly they picked up the skills as kids tinkering with their hobbies.

That was me! I probably would have flunked out of EE school if i didnt have such experiences from "hobbies". It was often the case that i knew practically how to answer an exam question, but could not grasp the concepts that professors were teaching me in order to answer these same questions because of my weak mathematics skills. I experienced an extension of high-school by going to a community college after high school. While it was more challenging and stimulating, it was too easy to get straight A's even in differential equations and the highest level physics offered. When i moved on to the real EE school (UIUC), things became *very* challenging, but i quickly got used to test scores in the 50% range and just kept hacking through :P. To this day, some 5 years since getting my degree, im still learning the concepts that university attempted to cram into my brain in 2 short years. If anything, i at least can come up with the right search terms for google when i need to learn something that i should already understand

E.TexasTesla

Sun Aug 18 2013, 02:05AM

Registered Member #4362 Joined: Sat Jan 21 2012, 03:44AM
Location: Texas
Posts: 98

[quote]

Possibly they picked up the skills as kids tinkering with their hobbies.

Forrst Mims III was my hero as a kid.
I enjoyed the little drawings he put in the notebooks.
I still have my old 555 engineers notebook from 1980.

Patrick

Wed Aug 28 2013, 04:54PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

lets not forget, a large contributing factor to this decline is the corruption of the educational industrial complex and its bogus tuition increases. Campus profiteering of the federal and state subsidies, the parents, and us young people who work... while not spending a dam dime on real education.

the educational system, which I used to be a huge supporter of and believer of in the 90's , has turned more into profiteer-ism and gatekeeper-ism rather than real education for the benefit of a society it supposedly serves.

im not a communist, and favor profit and vouchers in education, but whats happening now is another dot-com and another housing mortgage crisis in the making... get ready for the collapse of Sallie Mae.

these factors are largely internal to us Americans, but im confident we americans are leading the educational decline in general. There are cultural influences pressing the decline as well, but ill leave those comments to others.

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