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Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind the NSA surveillance revelations

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WaveRider

Wed Jun 12 2013, 08:36AM

Registered Member #29 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 09:00AM
Location: Hasselt, Belgium
Posts: 500

The mafioso Bernardo Provenzano managed to evade capture for decades by avoiding the use of any type of electronic communication. Physics Junkie is right. Pen and paper could be the best alternative. Provenzano was eventually captured, tho'

. If they want to get you, they will!!

Uspring

Wed Jun 12 2013, 09:30AM

Registered Member #3988 Joined: Thu Jul 07 2011, 03:25PM
Location:
Posts: 711

nixie wrote:

Franky, I'm shocked with the published data that today's youth (a majority percentage) will tolerate full oversight in the guise of "security". Really?

In Germany, where I live, I'd expect a poll to come out at least 80:20 against supervision of this sort. The local government has a lot of difficulty convincing people about CCTVs everywhere. Very different to e.g. the UK.
Germany has had first person experience with totalitarianism. The nazis, of course, and later the GDRs secret service, the STASI. The public opinion has been to protect the people against the government, not the other way around.
Germans didn't have to live through the experience of 9/11, though.

Physics Junkie

Thu Jun 13 2013, 03:11AM

Registered Member #7267 Joined: Tue Oct 16 2012, 12:16AM
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 407

I've been somewhat following this issue on the news to see what the media has to say about it. According to several internet polls done by different news stations (no matter how accurate), in general about 60-70% of Americans are opposed to the NSA's gathering of electronic data on the people. I'd think that the real percentage is a little higher. At least this disclosure has raised the awareness of the public.

Also, did anyone happen to see the NSA budget hearing with NSA Director General Kieth Alexander? He got drilled hard! Denied everything that Snowden said, tried diverting the issue to the FBI (basically tried blaming it on them), said that they require court ordered warrant before tapping phones and gathering electronic data (yeah right, who are you kidding? We all know what the Patriot Act allows you to do), and all in all Director Alexander was muttled with his words, didn't know what to say... I thought it was pretty funny to see him look so guilty. If I can find any good videos of the hearing I'll be sure to share them.

klugesmith

Thu Jun 13 2013, 04:04AM

Registered Member #2099 Joined: Wed Apr 29 2009, 12:22AM
Location: Los Altos, California
Posts: 1716

Why all the hue and cry about NSA gathering statistical data about phone calls?

Commercial for-profit operators collect, use, and sell a lot more specific data about every
Internet search we make, every online purchase, every social network write or read transaction.
Same applies to phone and cable-TV providers logging our live calls, text and voice messages,
and TV and movie selections. Geographic location of mobile devices.
Every point-of-sale transaction paid with anything except cash.

The government's uses don't scare me more than the commercial ones.
Any individual can opt to get along using only pre-20th-century modes of interaction.

Regarding privacy: if I were to go beyond advocacy, to activism,
I would first aim to regulate and restrict our corporate antagonists.
It might be different in places where state-sponsored bombings, shootings, and jailings
are more common than deaths by lightning, dangerous creatures, or infections.

p.s. I wish they would stop saying "war on terror". Terrorism is a tactic, a tool, toward specific political goals. So are drone strikes, cyber-espionage, cyber-sabotage, economic sanctions, and nonviolent rallys. Western governments want their capitalists to remain unfettered around the world. Their adversaries are not out to destroy or convert America. They want to take charge of the oily, Islamic, and/or Eastern places where most of them live, in a post-Western-dominated world.

Physics Junkie

Thu Jun 13 2013, 04:48AM

Registered Member #7267 Joined: Tue Oct 16 2012, 12:16AM
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 407

klugesmith wrote ...

The government's uses don't scare me more than the commercial ones

In fact I agree with everything you said, BUT... The uses aren't the biggest issue in my opinion. It's more the fact the the government is gradually violating, restricting, and stripping the people of our constitutional rights. Rights in which this country was founded on. It's just morally wrong for the government to do. To me this is way more of a scare than commercial violation of our rights, how can than not be a scare? If people turn a blind eye on the issue, then what's to stop the government in taking it to the next step? Whatever that may be. During the hearing the senators stated that there is an acceptable limit to over reach by the intelligence community, which I agree with too. But they also pointed out that the NSA has clearly crossed that limit to a very unacceptable point.

HV Enthusiast

Thu Jun 13 2013, 02:32PM

Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068

As Benjamin Franklin once stated:

"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor securityâ€

.

Conundrum

Sat Jun 15 2013, 09:13AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062

Well said EVR!

The problem is that the "War on Terror" has escalated into the "War on Freedoms" because the Government don't know where to draw the line.
Indiscriminate use of the ADS system in the UK, in locations such as prisons, schools and even junkyards to stop people going places they shouldn't is just the first step.

-A

paris

Sat Jun 15 2013, 10:01PM

Registered Member #3042 Joined: Wed Jul 28 2010, 12:36AM
Location:
Posts: 121

in the court room its "do you swear to tell the truth ....." , but out side the court room in the real world you tell the truth your a goner

nixie

Sun Jun 16 2013, 12:45AM

Registered Member #3908 Joined: Tue May 24 2011, 09:40PM
Location: Gilbert, Arizona USA
Posts: 68

"As the stomach turns" - with the NSA / Booz Allen, and other talking heads realizing that Edward Snowden is universally recognized as a Martyr to the masses, Extradition or Rendition appears to have been played down. Instead, these parties noted above have opted to impune his character in an attempt to sway public opinion. Examples are: overstatement of responsibilities, level of access to information, and outright lies. Unfortunately this does not appear to be working all so well for them. And hopefully backfire. Perhaps they'll try to saddle him with a sexual assault charge next...

A whitehouse.gov petition to have him pardoned of all charges was initiated early last week. It was at 80% of it's goal at 100k signatures in 48 hours. That was the requirement for being heard. Then it just disappeared on Thursday...

James Clapper (US Director of National Intelligence) really got his foot stuck in the crapper following his statement of Snowden being a traitor. The Guardian has been all over that for a couple days. It's an amusing short read:

Adding credibility to Snowden's original claims; Feinstein admits the NSA had been monitoring all domestic communications, and not just the metadata.

TheAnomaly

Sun Jun 16 2013, 01:21AM

Registered Member #5620 Joined: Sat Jul 07 2012, 01:41AM
Location: Jacksonville Fl
Posts: 8

I see a lot of irony in the US gov telling citizens that they are fighting to protect freedom and at the same time signing laws into power that allow them to trample the 4th amendment. Without privacy do we really have freedom?

It also seems like we are having a lot of knee-jerk reactions to recent events from lawmakers.

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