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4hv.org :: Forums :: Tesla Coils
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Varnish the secondary. Catastrophe

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Physics Junkie
Fri Mar 08 2013, 08:12AM
Physics Junkie Registered Member #7267 Joined: Tue Oct 16 2012, 12:16AM
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 407
Dr. Slack wrote ...

There is such a large difference between the expansion coefficients that you don't have to. 75u for the PVC, 15u for the copper, 60u differential. You would have to heat the copper through 4 degrees to get the same effect as cooling both copper and plastic by only 1 degree. So it's not worth mucking about with the copper temperature. Put your ski hat, thick socks and body-warmer on, and wind the coil in the out house.

You only have to resort to difficult tricks like differential temperatures when you are dealing with two materials with the same coefficient. So you put your steel shaft in the freezer, steel ball-bearing inner race in hot oil, then get them in the right place quickly before the temperatures equalise.

If you do take them somewhere cold to wind, beware condensation. I'm thinking particularly about your breath. The out house and components might have reached a nice dry low humidity equilibrium, but if you go and spend an hour or two in there, you could raise the humidity such that it could condense on the former or wire. I don't need to spell out the problems that dampness could cause for varnish drying or subsequent kV operation.


Yeah I plan on just winding it in the garage with the garage door open. It's pretty dry out. I did think of condensation though. And I expect that once the coil is brought back inside to warm up, there will most likely be some light dew that will form. In this case what do you think about placing the coil a few feet from the fire place (not too close)? Doing this would be for the sole purpose of drying the coil of any moisture that may be on it, or almost as if to 'bake' it. Or do you think it would be best to just let it air dry and maybe wipe it carefully with a cloth?
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Antonio
Fri Mar 08 2013, 08:33PM
Antonio Registered Member #834 Joined: Tue Jun 12 2007, 10:57PM
Location: Brazil
Posts: 644
I really can't imagine how this can happen. Maybe excessive varnish dissolving the insulation of the wire? Tension in the wire caused by winding it twisted, what happens if you take the wire from the spool by an end, without unwinding it from the spool? Apply a series of light layers, never applying again the brush over varnish that is not dry, waiting the varnish to dry completely between layers.
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Physics Junkie
Fri Mar 08 2013, 09:00PM
Physics Junkie Registered Member #7267 Joined: Tue Oct 16 2012, 12:16AM
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 407
Antonio wrote ...

I really can't imagine how this can happen. Maybe excessive varnish dissolving the insulation of the wire? Tension in the wire caused by winding it twisted, what happens if you take the wire from the spool by an end, without unwinding it from the spool? Apply a series of light layers, never applying again the brush over varnish that is not dry, waiting the varnish to dry completely between layers.
I dont understand what you are suggesting, sorry. I never got as far as applying layers of varnish. Literally a few strokes and all went to hell, its not like I caked it on the coil. I was very careful. I dont think the varnish dissolved anything, my money is on the mistake that I wind room temperature, then went to a freezing garage to varnish.
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Physics Junkie
Wed Mar 13 2013, 07:45PM
Physics Junkie Registered Member #7267 Joined: Tue Oct 16 2012, 12:16AM
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 407
As requested, here are photos of my winding rig setup and the new secondary that I just got done winding. I wanted to experiment with winding in the cold and varnishing in the warm, but recent changes in the weather has melted a lot of snow and it started raining and became fairly humid outside, so winding in the garage was not a wise choice. I ended up winding in the most dry room in my house, and I will be varnishing there too so at least im not moving the coil to different temperature for applying the varnish.
_______________________

1363202778 7267 FT1630 Winding Rig1

Yup, its pretty self explanatory..

1363202778 7267 FT1630 Winding Rig 2

_______________________

1363202778 7267 FT1630 Almost Done 2

Almost Done!
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1363202778 7267 FT1630 Winding Complete

The completed winding
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1363202778 7267 FT1630 Nice Winding

Nice tight winding, no overlaps, no scrunches, no spaces.
_______________________

1363202778 7267 FT1630 Winding Space

This was the only error I had with this winding. But this space is so small I dont care about it. It developed at the last inch and a half when I was finishing up. I was able to carefully push the windings tighter together with my fingernail which helped to close up the small space.
_______________________

I am going to start varnishing tonight as I am busy for the next few hours.. I may or may not spray a light coat of enamel on to hold the windings in place. Let me know what you think. Thanks for all the help guys. Also, can anyone recommend the speed I should be rotating the coil when I apply the varnish? I read about 5 rpm's on another site. I suppose I might just have to test it out and find the 'sweet spot' for my particular setup..

_______________________


EDIT: First coat of varnish

1363226444 7267 FT1630 Varnishing


1363226444 7267 FT1630 Half Varnish


1363226444 7267 FT1630 1st Coat


I ended up doing a spray of enamel before the varnish, all I can say is that it definetly helped but I'm not sure it was totally necessary. So the initial problem indeed had to have been thermal expansion. I had absolutely no problem at all cheesey thanks everyone
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teravolt
Thu Mar 14 2013, 04:17AM
teravolt Registered Member #195 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 08:27PM
Location: Berkeley, ca.
Posts: 1111
Hi Physics Junkiei, when I do a coil I periodically put masking tape on the windings to fix them as I am winding. when I am done I take the tape off genitally and spray clear urethane. works every time
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Physics Junkie
Thu Mar 14 2013, 05:05AM
Physics Junkie Registered Member #7267 Joined: Tue Oct 16 2012, 12:16AM
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 407
I pretty much did the same thing but with electrical tape and clear coat enamel. Masking tape is probably a better idea though because it's less sticky then electrical tape. I didnt really have to tape much of this coil except for two spots at the very beginning to make sure that the windings were going on perpendicular to the length of the coil, if that makes sense (so I dont end up with a lopsided winding)
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