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Registered Member #543
Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
For maximum efficency the magnetic field should be perpendicular to the flame jet, and the electrodes at right angles to the magnetic field i.e. a cross section through the flame channel should be a rectangle, with the magnetic poles forming top and bottom, and the electrodes the sides. @Reaching: I reckon you need a picoammeter.
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Reaching wrote ...
hihi, yeah, but if i have to measure in picoamps, then it is not useful at all and not worth for further experiments^^
You should obtain more current with more flame, as more ions will be present (at least, I assume this is the case. Also, supermagnets exert a greater force if they are stacked. I'll see if I can find mine, and a blowtorch.
EDIT: Well, I finally found some, stuck to a filing cabinet in the shed, I also found two aluminium sheets, about 8" X10", wrapped two pairs of SMCo magnets in insulating tape, fixed them to one of the Al sheets, about 3" apart, oriented north pole to south pole, placed some bits of lego on the plate, then rested the second plate on the lego, and connected my DMM, set to volts.
The voltage started to rise immediately, which I thought was strange (sometimes the meter fluctuates a bit, but it was just rising), so I shorted the plates with a teaspoon that was on the table. The meter dropped, and fluctuated between 0 and 0.1mV. I removed the teaspoon and the voltage started to rise again, so it seems there are ions floating around my kitchen, and the plates are acting like a capacitor. The voltage rose to ~150mV, it was still rising, but more slowly. I repeated this a few times, just to ensure repeatability.
I then lit my blowtorch on a low setting, and brought it near the space between the plates, and the voltage shot up. It dropped again when I removed the blowtorch. When I turned the blowtorch up, and brought it back to the gap between the plates, the voltage shot up further , to over 300mV, then the insulating tape holding the magnets in place started to melt, so I stopped.
Some current must be flowing through the meter, and discharging the plates, but it seems there are a lot of ions floating around in my kitchen even without the flame.
I just need to devise a better way of holding the magnets in place, before continuing using the blowtorch.
EDIT: I believe the explanation for the flow of air between the horizontal plates which were overhanging the edge of my kitchen table is heat from the four halogen lamps above my kitchen table causing convection currents, but I had no idea there were so many ions present in it. Other sources may have contributed to the convection currents, ie aga, etc.
Registered Member #5258
Joined: Sun Jun 10 2012, 10:15PM
Location: Missouri - USA
Posts: 119
A halbach array would probably be the best choice here since the magnetic field is augmented on one side. I have a few decent sided ones made from 1/2" NdFeB from a maglev project, I'll dig them up and try a similar setup.
Also it would be interesting to try this with actual plasma since fire is a very weak plasma if that. Conductivity is a typical characteristic of plasmas, and air is not sufficiently ionized by fire to be able to measure any electrical conductivity which is on reason there is debate over a typical atmospheric fire being plasma or not. Maybe replace the metal plates with graphite or shield them with quarts or a layer of cooling air.
I'm working on an RF/ICP (Inductively Coupled Plasma) torch high, a frequency induction heater to generate plasma from argon for another project (ICP-AES). When it's finished I will definitely circle back to this and try something similar. I'm not sure if plasma generated by high voltage arcs or a plasma speaker could be used due to the high voltage present mucking up the results.
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Electricity from Fire
