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Drones and Shotguns for Law Enforcement...

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Patrick

Wed Oct 31 2012, 08:32PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Does anyone know the difference between trap/skeet shotguns and combat shotguns? or is it the shooter that makes the real diffference.

I saw a episode of Pawn Stars recently, and (predictably) the young guys chose the combat shotguns, and Rick chose the traditional trap shooting weapon and did much better.

Still further, ill remind people of the rogue enlisted man who flew a bell helicopter over the White House in the 70's, the suicide pilot who flew a cessna 172 into the white house during the clinton years, and now the arab terrorist who tried to fly two fully autonomous jet drones loaded with 10+lbs of RDX into the pentagon. And most recently the israeli shoot down of a Hezbollah drone hovering over their nuclear power/military site.

Im thinking the Secret Service, may need some advice in this matter from those of us who build and operate these types of drones (who arnt terrorists). And i just know some foriegn or domestic coward will try it too.

EDIT: i think it goes without saying that rifles and pistols from the standing position would be useless against an unexpected
fast-moving drone.

AndrewM

Thu Nov 01 2012, 04:04AM

Registered Member #49 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:05AM
Location: Bigass Pile of Penguins
Posts: 362

Patrick wrote ...

Does anyone know the difference between trap/skeet shotguns and combat shotguns? or is it the shooter that makes the real diffference.

I saw a episode of Pawn Stars recently, and (predictably) the young guys chose the combat shotguns, and Rick chose the traditional trap shooting weapon and did much better.

Trap/skeet is a long range sport and the guns are designed for it - the big difference is that the guns themselves are much longer. Trap guns have a 28" barrel... not as a rule, but it might as well be. A "combat" shotgun is generally shorter to make it easier to maneuver indoors and accuracy suffers heavily. A 28" trap gun is just about completely useless for combat roles just due to the size alone.

Also shotguns have a "choke" in the end of the barrel, which is basically a slight constriction of the barrel. The intent is to knock the balls around a bit as they exit so that they diverge as they fly. A trap gun will have the least constriction, generally a "full" choke so the balls don't spread out quickly. A combat gun will have a tighter constriction so the balls fan out faster, perhaps a "cylinder" choke.

Pinky's Brain

Thu Nov 01 2012, 04:28AM

Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
Location:
Posts: 837

Any automated system is going to keep the bird population down as well :)

PS. what was 10 pounds of explosives supposed to do to the pentagon exactly?

Patrick

Thu Nov 01 2012, 04:48AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Pinky's Brain wrote ...

Any automated system is going to keep the bird population down as well :)

PS. what was 10 pounds of explosives supposed to do to the pentagon exactly?

well on 9/11 the hijackers didnt know it but they hit the Navy/Army side of the building, and that had the only complete up-armored sections to resist vehicle born bomb attacks.
But as for your question he might have knocked a hole and killed a 12-20 or so, and injured 30-50, not much more. The pentagon is a very strong building...a light attack he planned--at best.

And that assumes he fuzed his weapons right.

Its a real good thing that the FBI caught him and gave him potting clay instead of real explosives, but the problem is, alqaeda or not, these terrrorists get it small and wrong, then comeback later--bigger--better and murder people, like the USS Cole and the
World Trade center... in both cases it took two attempts.

What Andrew said helps me greatly!

Pinky, im thinking of a Phalanx-like autonomous shotgun (or auto rifle) air defense system. For embassies, Bases, airports, warships and the White House...

HV Enthusiast

Thu Nov 01 2012, 05:16PM

Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068

A drone (the type an amateur can afford and operate) is a very poor vehicle for weapons delivery unless your the military and have access to advanced weapons, targeting systems, etc...

A drone would require just that - an expensive drone, lots of operating experience for the user, a place to launch it inconspicously, a very advanced targeting system, and costwise provides a very small platform to carry really anything.

Why go through all that when a $24 dollar per day U-Haul rental truck will all that and more or even rent a small Cessna for a few hundred bucks.

I really don't think its much of a concern in the grand scheme of things.

Steve Conner

Thu Nov 01 2012, 05:33PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

It's a bummer for Patrick though if he wants to set himself up as a drone warfare consultant.

Patrick

Thu Nov 01 2012, 06:11PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Steve Conner wrote ...

It's a bummer for Patrick though if he wants to set himself up as a drone warfare consultant.

if everyone else can make money in defense, why shouldnt I? lol!

EasternVoltageResearch, id be way more concerend with a dumb High School kid landing an AR Drone on the Presidents podium in the middle of a speech. No weapon need be involved, after the Secret Service cocaine and prostitute parties, theyed look real stupid then. If the secret Service is wise and disciplined theyll be thinking about this before it becomes demonstrated.

besides for weaponized drones, the multii wii and other $20-80 controllers are soon going to have the capability to auto detonate via the skills of an idiot. (a blasting cap can be attached to any circuit as weve seen in Iraq and Afghanistan.)

I wonder if the secret service should carry trap-like shotguns for this purpose ? even if they are long barreled weapons.

Dr. Drone

Thu Nov 01 2012, 09:02PM

Registered Member #290 Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 08:24PM
Location:
Posts: 1673

Steve Conner

Fri Nov 02 2012, 07:25AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

There you go Patrick. You can rebadge the Saiga as the "DroneBegone" and sell it to the Secret Service at a hefty markup.

Patrick

Fri Nov 02 2012, 04:13PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

yeah, but i think long range may be more imporatant that round capacity, in a real world attack, youd likely only get two rounds off...

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