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Wishbringer

Thu Sept 20 2012, 03:01PM

Registered Member #6688 Joined: Fri Sept 14 2012, 11:38PM
Location:
Posts: 2

I don't see a 'newbie' thread, so I'm posting here. Please forgive my first post if its wrongly placed.

I'm a high voltage enthusiast, obvious since I'm here, right?

For my associate's capstone, I'm working on a fusor. I plan on taking it to master's level thesis, for now. Finding a lot of similar veins interesting that I hadn't thought of before.. low keV (100) acceleration, plasma gassification... and I'm going to have to build a plasma arc speaker. There has to be some way to create bass... higher voltage with longer arc perhaps? New electrodes? I see a lot of copper... why not thoriated tungsten?

I hate rule II.I... there IS such a thing as free energy. Wind and solar do not violate the laws of thermodynamics and are free sources for energy. My uncle has a working system as well... zinc and copper rods driven into the earth about 1000 feet apart. Generates enough power (5-50V depending on ground saturation) to keep a small battery bank charged (coupled with a wind generator) to keep lighting working without relying on the grid.

There was even a recent article confirming with the same level of accuracy as the Higgs Boson that Dark Energy exists. If you want to claim use of it, I'll accept your idea after your Nobel prize.

I'm sure there will be more rambling, and some odd questions. I'll ask them in the pertinent place.

Daedronus

Thu Sept 20 2012, 07:39PM

Registered Member #2329 Joined: Tue Sept 01 2009, 08:25AM
Location:
Posts: 370

wind and solar power is not free, who pays for the turbine and panels?

PS: Welcome

Proud Mary

Thu Sept 20 2012, 08:23PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Wishbringer wrote ...

... zinc and copper rods driven into the earth about 1000 feet apart. Generates enough power (5-50V depending on ground saturation)

This looks very fishy to me, Wishburger. A glance at a Standard Potential Table shows that the potential difference between a Cu electrode and a Zn electrode in a Galvanic cell would be 1.1V, no matter how near or far the electrodes were from each other.

Wishbringer

Sat Sept 22 2012, 06:31AM

Registered Member #6688 Joined: Fri Sept 14 2012, 11:38PM
Location:
Posts: 2

Proud Mary wrote ...

This looks very fishy to me, Wishburger. A glance at a Standard Potential Table shows that the potential difference between a Cu electrode and a Zn electrode in a Galvanic cell would be 1.1V, no matter how near or far the electrodes were from each other.

If it helps, his plot of land is 1acre x 5acre, and I know the posts are driven very near the front and back, so nearly 5 acre apart. Both at 10' (approx) driven to 2 inches visible. One has a 50 foot cord to his receptacle, the other is 10 gauge wire run through a conduit from the back of his property, so roughly equal to 5 acre - (minus) about 50'. The output of that system is 5-50V, higher with more ground saturation. Between .1 and 1A is what I was quoted last I asked, and between 5V and 50V depending on ground saturation. I know he runs that one to a battery bank that is filtered before reaching the primary battery bank. It is no where NEAR stable, and it was originally installed by my grandfather nearly 40 years ago. Is there anything special introduced? I don't know. I know what I was told by my grandfather, on property now owned by my uncle. I know, on a very basic level, it should do something. I can only work off the fact my grandfather used it to power lights that were always too bright or dim... my uncle uses a battery bank and has it 'just right'. I know the property isn't on the grid due to its location. He is the one who told me the system setup by my grandfather produces 5-50V.

Is it accurate? I do not know, I'm 1100 miles away. I know what it did when I grew up there, I know what it did when I moved away, I know about what it does when I visit. I know on 3/30/2012 it was just as a snow melt occurred and my multimeter read 48V and then blew out the 10A fuse when I tried putting it in line with the lighting system and battery array (used to light a very long driveway). Those are the only measurements I've done. The only thing about the rods I am sure of is that my grandfather had them forged using recycled materials of zinc and copper when he worked at a steel mill. Not much to go on, as to why it does what it does, but it's what sparked my interest when I was child. It's continued to be a thorn in my side, many many years later. One of these days, I'm going to fly up there, and scrape the rods on my uncle's system to find out exactly what the rods are.

The twp things I'm 100% sure of, is it uses dirt as an electrolyte, and it is very sensitive to ground water level. Though I cannot tell you exactly how it works, I know it must not violate the laws of thermodynamics since it works. Outside of that, I've been told its based upon Zinc and Copper. I know there are large electrodes that are very old now, thicker than my closed fist. Overall, I don't think it should do what it does, but it does.

Next time I take a trip to my hometown, I already plan on taking a sample of the material used for both electrodes. Since I've been in school, it makes less and less sense albeit some sense since I know it works.

That aside... since its a low voltage system it shouldn't matter here...

I'm here more for my thoughts and theories behind high electron-volt plasma gasification and as a preliminary project, a Farnsworth fusor. If I'm wanting to achieve fusion at 100keV, I need a 100keV vacuum passthrough, which I'm finding hard to come by.

Proud Mary

Sat Sept 22 2012, 10:38AM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Dieckmann (1885) connected a number of earth cells in series, to obtain higher voltages than are possible from a simple copper-zinc electrode pair, the which technique he described in US Patent 329,724.

Ash Small

Sat Sept 22 2012, 10:38AM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

I presume the soil is quite acidic at your Uncle's place. I also don't understand how that voltage can be achieved with only one 'cell'.

EDIT: Maybe there are other 'cells', completely buried, and the only two protruding from the soil are the two 'end terminals'?

Wishbringer wrote ...

I'm here more for my thoughts and theories behind high electron-volt plasma gasification and as a preliminary project, a Farnsworth fusor. If I'm wanting to achieve fusion at 100keV, I need a 100keV vacuum passthrough, which I'm finding hard to come by.

Most fusors use a supply of 20-40kV. A lot of people use a 'non-suppressed' spark plug (eg Ford model 'T'), welded or brazed into a vacuum port, with the long end inside the chamber. If it is placed at the top of the chamber, you can place your whole HV supply (say, a HV transformer and multiplier) under oil, and mount the whole lot on top of the chamber.

Sulaiman

Sun Sept 23 2012, 06:23AM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140

Welcome to 4HV Wishbringer,
you wil find a lot of helpful folk here with a wide range of expertise, knowledge and opinions.

"free energy" refers to the many 'magical' schemes for producing energy,
'energy harvesting' has been tried by many of us.

e.g. zinc and copper are not free and are consumed by the production of electrical energy,
so it's neither "free' nor 'harvested'
i.e. more energy went into the production of the zinc and copper
than could be recovered as electrical energy.

Steve Conner

Sun Sept 23 2012, 06:30AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

I guess there are two kinds of free energy. "Free as in beer"- you don't pay for the fuel. This is properly called renewable energy or energy harvesting. On this forum and most elsewhere on the WWW, when you say "free energy" it implies the second kind, "free as in violating the laws of thermodynamics".

Sulaiman

Sun Sept 23 2012, 06:39AM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140

P.S. despite our belief in the laws of thermodynamics
many of us hope for some 'magical' "free energy" that will later be understood
and do look at much of the garbage on the internet.
But be prepared for a tirade of abuse if you propose such a scheme without proof ;)

Steve Conner

Sun Sept 23 2012, 07:30AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

That's true, at the end of the day the laws of thermodynamics are just observations about how the universe appears to work. They could be proven wrong by a counterexample.

Having said that, when you get experimental results that seem to defy the laws of thermodynamics, you should be suspecting your experimental technique and apparatus first. Much of the "free energy research" I've seen on the WWW focuses on making circuits with really spiky waveforms that cause cheap digital meters to under-read the actual amount of electrical power flowing. The horrid dirty pulses are then converted back to DC, which the meters are capable of reading more accurately. This gives the illusion of more power out than you put in. With nasty enough waveforms, even an expensive true RMS meter can be fooled.

Of course any scientist worthy of the name would simply connect the circuit's output back to its input to see what happened.

PS: Welcome to the forum Wishbringer

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