If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.
Special Thanks To:
Aaron Holmes
Aaron Wheeler
Adam Horden
Alan Scrimgeour
Andre
Andrew Haynes
Anonymous000
asabase
Austin Weil
barney
Barry
Bert Hickman
Bill Kukowski
Blitzorn
Brandon Paradelas
Bruce Bowling
BubeeMike
Byong Park
Cesiumsponge
Chris F.
Chris Hooper
Corey Worthington
Derek Woodroffe
Dalus
Dan Strother
Daniel Davis
Daniel Uhrenholt
datasheetarchive
Dave Billington
Dave Marshall
David F.
Dennis Rogers
drelectrix
Dr. John Gudenas
Dr. Spark
E.TexasTesla
eastvoltresearch
Eirik Taylor
Erik Dyakov
Erlend^SE
Finn Hammer
Firebug24k
GalliumMan
Gary Peterson
George Slade
GhostNull
Gordon Mcknight
Graham Armitage
Grant
GreySoul
Henry H
IamSmooth
In memory of Leo Powning
Jacob Cash
James Howells
James Pawson
Jeff Greenfield
Jeff Thomas
Jesse Frost
Jim Mitchell
jlr134
Joe Mastroianni
John Forcina
John Oberg
John Willcutt
Jon Newcomb
klugesmith
Leslie Wright
Lutz Hoffman
Mads Barnkob
Martin King
Mats Karlsson
Matt Gibson
Matthew Guidry
mbd
Michael D'Angelo
Mikkel
mileswaldron
mister_rf
Neil Foster
Nick de Smith
Nick Soroka
nicklenorp
Nik
Norman Stanley
Patrick Coleman
Paul Brodie
Paul Jordan
Paul Montgomery
Ped
Peter Krogen
Peter Terren
PhilGood
Richard Feldman
Robert Bush
Royce Bailey
Scott Fusare
Scott Newman
smiffy
Stella
Steven Busic
Steve Conner
Steve Jones
Steve Ward
Sulaiman
Thomas Coyle
Thomas A. Wallace
Thomas W
Timo
Torch
Ulf Jonsson
vasil
Vaxian
vladi mazzilli
wastehl
Weston
William Kim
William N.
William Stehl
Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Registered Member #480
Joined: Thu Jul 06 2006, 07:08PM
Location: North America
Posts: 644
IR -
Looking at your most recent JAVATC files, neither of them show any data for your topload. The capacitance of your topload will have a huge effect on the resonant frequency of your secondary circuit.
In your JAVATC run #1, notice that your secondary resonant frequency (332 KHz) is still much higher than your primary resonant frequency (190 KHz).
When you include your topload data, the topload capacitance will form an L-C circuit with the secondary inductance, and substantially LOWER the resonant frequency of the secondary circuit, bringing closer to the 190 KHz of your primary circuit.
So, enter the dimensions of your topload (toroid), run JAVATC again, and watch what happens to to the secondary resonant frequency.
MAKE SURE YOU HAVE CORRECTLY ENTERED THE TOROID DIMENSIONS, AND THE LENGTH OF ALL THE INTERCONNECTING WIRING IN THE PRIMARY CIRCUIT!
Now see how close the secondary frequency comes to the resonant frequency of your primary.
You'll probably need to adjust your primary length (or turns count) again to make the primary resonant frequency match your new (lower) secondary resonant frequency.
Looking at your most recent JAVATC files, neither of them show any data for your topload. The capacitance of your topload will have a huge effect on the resonant frequency of your secondary circuit.
In your JAVATC run #1, notice that your secondary resonant frequency (332 KHz) is still much higher than your primary resonant frequency (190 KHz).
When you include your topload data, the topload capacitance will form an L-C circuit with the secondary inductance, and substantially LOWER the resonant frequency of the secondary circuit, bringing closer to the 190 KHz of your primary circuit.
So, enter the dimensions of your topload (toroid), run JAVATC again, and watch what happens to to the secondary resonant frequency.
MAKE SURE YOU HAVE CORRECTLY ENTERED THE TOROID DIMENSIONS, AND THE LENGTH OF ALL THE INTERCONNECTING WIRING IN THE PRIMARY CIRCUIT!
Now see how close the secondary frequency comes to the resonant frequency of your primary.
You'll probably need to adjust your primary length (or turns count) again to make the primary resonant frequency match your new (lower) secondary resonant frequency.
Herr Zapp
Ah, I had the values of the toroid put in I just forgot to push add.
Correct again!
I did run it again and the frequency did go down on the secondary to 213.92. The primary at 190.19
If I adjust the primary and shorten it to 12.5 The secondary is 213.92 and the secondary at 213.01
I got some time tonight to measure the wire length of the primary circuit. So Ill get that added then. In the mean time here is the new JAVATC I ran.
-----------------------------------------
----------- Secondary Outputs: -----------------------------------------
----------- 213.92 kHz = Secondary Resonant Frequency 90 deg° = Angle of Secondary 19.25 inch = Length of Winding 58 inch = Turns Per Unit 0.00129 inch = Space Between Turns (edge to edge) 1315.9 ft = Length of Wire 4.28:1 = H/D Aspect Ratio 53.2709 Ohms = DC Resistance 39077 Ohms = Reactance at Resonance 1.01 lbs = Weight of Wire 29.073 mH = Les-Effective Series Inductance 30.693 mH = Lee-Equivalent Energy Inductance 30.005 mH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance 19.039 pF = Ces-Effective Shunt Capacitance 18.034 pF = Cee-Equivalent Energy Capacitance 29.348 pF = Cdc-Low Frequency Capacitance 6.21 mils = Skin Depth 13.476 pF = Topload Effective Capacitance 143.6972 Ohms = Effective AC Resistance 272 = Q
-----------------------------------------------
----- Primary Outputs: -----------------------------------------
----------- 213.01 kHz = Primary Resonant Frequency 0.43 % high = Percent Detuned 2 deg° = Angle of Primary 46.63 ft = Length of Wire 7.74 mOhms = DC Resistance 0.29 inch = Average spacing between turns (edge to edge) 1.643 inch = Proximity between coils 1.37 inch = Recommended minimum proximity between coils 59.549 µH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance 0.0093 µF = Cap size needed with Primary L (reference) 0 µH = Lead Length Inductance 148.142 µH = Lm-Mutual Inductance 0.111 k = Coupling Coefficient 0.131 k = Recommended Coupling Coefficient 9.01 = Number of half cycles for energy transfer at K 20.98 µs = Time for total energy transfer (ideal quench time)
-------------------------------------------
--------- Transformer Inputs: ------------------------------------------
---------- 120 [volts] = Transformer Rated Input Voltage 12000 [volts] = Transformer Rated Output Voltage 30 [mA] = Transformer Rated Output Current 60 [Hz] = Mains Frequency 135 [volts] = Transformer Applied Voltage 0 [amps] = Transformer Ballast Current 0 [ohms] = Measured Primary Resistance 0 [ohms] = Measured Secondary Resistance
--------------------------------------
-------------- Transformer Outputs: -----------------------------------------
----------- 360 [volt*amps] = Rated Transformer VA 400000 [ohms] = Transformer Impedence 13500 [rms volts] = Effective Output Voltage 3.38 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Primary Current 0.0338 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Secondary Current 456 [volt*amps] = Effective Input VA 0.0066 [uF] = Resonant Cap Size 0.0099 [uF] = Static gap LTR Cap Size 0.0173 [uF] = SRSG LTR Cap Size 66 [uF] = Power Factor Cap Size 19092 [peak volts] = Voltage Across Cap 47730 [peak volts] = Recommended Cap Voltage Rating 1.71 [joules] = Primary Cap Energy 239.6 [peak amps] = Primary Instantaneous Current 30.8 [inch] = Spark Length (JF equation using Resonance Research Corp. factors) 10.8 [peak amps] = Sec Base Current
-----------------------------------------
----------- Static Spark Gap Inputs: ------------------------------------------
---------- 8 = Number of Electrodes 0.25 [inch] = Electrode Diameter 0.06 [inch] = Total Gap Spacing
-----------------------------------------
----------- Static Spark Gap Outputs: -----------------------------------------
----------- 0.009 [inch] = Gap Spacing Between Each Electrode 19092 [peak volts] = Charging Voltage 5535 [peak volts] = Arc Voltage 42421 [volts] = Voltage Gradient at Electrode 92247 [volts/inch] = Arc Voltage per unit 29 [%] = Percent Cp Charged When Gap Fires 2.729 [ms] = Time To Arc Voltage 366 [BPS] = Breaks Per Second 0.14 [joules] = Effective Cap Energy 126195 [peak volts] = Terminal Voltage 53 [power] = Energy Across Gap 27.5 [inch] = Static Gap Spark Length (using energy equation)
Registered Member #480
Joined: Thu Jul 06 2006, 07:08PM
Location: North America
Posts: 644
IR -
OK, finally everything is starting to come together. You've got a design modeled in JAVATC that, if everything is optimized, should be capable of generating 24" streamers. It's unlikely that you'll achieve this performance at the beginning, but at least the model indicates that this is potentially achievable.
The next thing to do is to try and make your physical coil match the JAVATC model. After you get your multi-electrode spark gap adjusted properly, position your primary tap at the point indicated in JAVATC, place a grounded strike target at (for instance) 18" from the toroid, fire the coil, and see if (and how frequently) a streamer connects with the target. If no streamers reach the target, move it a few inches closer, until you get occasional streamer hit. Now move your primary tap to a new location 1/4 turn from the previous position (either in or out), and test again. If the streamers are longer, or connect to your target more frequently, then make another 1/4 turn adjustment in the same direction. If performance gets worse, adjust in the opposite direction. Continue to adjust your primary tap point in smaller increments uintil you have achieved maximum streamer length.
Record the max streamer length, and let us know what it is. The streamer length that you achieve with your current coil configuration will dictate what the next steps are.
OK, finally everything is starting to come together. You've got a design modeled in JAVATC that, if everything is optimized, should be capable of generating 24" streamers. It's unlikely that you'll achieve this performance at the beginning, but at least the model indicates that this is potentially achievable.
The next thing to do is to try and make your physical coil match the JAVATC model. After you get your multi-electrode spark gap adjusted properly, position your primary tap at the point indicated in JAVATC, place a grounded strike target at (for instance) 18" from the toroid, fire the coil, and see if (and how frequently) a streamer connects with the target. If no streamers reach the target, move it a few inches closer, until you get occasional streamer hit. Now move your primary tap to a new location 1/4 turn from the previous position (either in or out), and test again. If the streamers are longer, or connect to your target more frequently, then make another 1/4 turn adjustment in the same direction. If performance gets worse, adjust in the opposite direction. Continue to adjust your primary tap point in smaller increments uintil you have achieved maximum streamer length.
Record the max streamer length, and let us know what it is. The streamer length that you achieve with your current coil configuration will dictate what the next steps are.
Herr Zapp
I know I going to feel pretty dumb asking this. But you said in the JAVATC it states where to place the primary tap. Sorry, but where is this at that I'm suppose to find out where to position that?
As far as matching the coil up, i need to finish my spark gap, but also I would need to go ahead an cut down some of the primary coil to match the JAVATC correct?
When I test my coil from a ground that you say I should start 18" away or so. Should I use a break out point on the toroid or no?
Registered Member #30
Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
JavaTC doesn't calculate the primary tapping point for you. You enter the number of primary turns and it tells you if you're in tune.
The turns beyond the tapping point do nothing, no current flows through them so from an electrical point of view they don't exist. If JavaTC says you are in tune with 12.5 turns, go ahead and attach your tapping point at turn 12.5, and voila you have a 12.5 turn primary.
Be sure to follow Herr Zapp's tuning instructions, as the calculator doesn't get it exactly right.
JavaTC doesn't calculate the primary tapping point for you. You enter the number of primary turns and it tells you if you're in tune.
The turns beyond the tapping point do nothing, no current flows through them so from an electrical point of view they don't exist. If JavaTC says you are in tune with 12.5 turns, go ahead and attach your tapping point at turn 12.5, and voila you have a 12.5 turn primary.
Be sure to follow Herr Zapp's tuning instructions, as the calculator doesn't get it exactly right.
Got it. Still learning. Im going to get it re fired up this weekend with in tuned in, with the new gap and see how it works!
I know this is a simple hook up to wire up my fans for my spark gap. I've been using a computer fan power supply.
Id like to have something smaller or more "professional" looking as I would say. Ive got a smaller power supply that I just got that converts to 12v, but the amps are to low and wont power the fans.
I use small 5" AC desk fans from Walmart. They're about $6 ea and are the best deal around I can find. Not a whole lot of air movement, but beats most computer fans.
I use small 5" AC desk fans from Walmart. They're about $6 ea and are the best deal around I can find. Not a whole lot of air movement, but beats most computer fans.
Right now I've got 120mm fans, 2 of them set on my spark gap.
I hadn't thought about the drill battery. Like I said ive been using a computer PS.
I read up last night that some people use a phone charger to power a computer fan
Im hoping to get my coil fired up again here in the next couple of days. I've just been so busy to check how this new coil is going to work.
Ive made the new gap, I've re-soldered the ends of my secondary wire to the terminals for a better connection. I Wrapped my toroid air ducting tubing with foil tape for a little but of a smoother service. The terry filter has been fixed. Along with the new gap, I've got bigger and more powerful fans attached. Also have got the tap point set at 12.5 turns.
I think the only thing I need to work on now from what herr zapp said would be the Grounding wires. Since mine are too big.
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.
First time Tesla builder, Terry Filter caps popping?
(temporary)
