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Registered Member #480
Joined: Thu Jul 06 2006, 07:08PM
Location: North America
Posts: 644
IL -
After you've input all your data and allowed JAVATC to run, click the "Make Load File" and post it here so we can review the design.
The multi-segment gap will give you improved quenching.
Read this to understand what quenching is, and what improved quenching will do for your coil:
Did the "Primary Coil Output Data" fields NOT get automatically filled in when you ran JAVATC? If not, there's still something wrong. You need to see BOTH the Primary and Secondary data to see if your coil is in resonance, so keep working at it until you get both the Primary and Secondary Coil Output Data fields fully populated.
After you've input all your data and allowed JAVATC to run, click the "Make Load File" and post it here so we can review the design.
The multi-segment gap will give you improved quenching.
Read this to understand what quenching is, and what improved quenching will do for your coil:
Did the "Primary Coil Output Data" fields NOT get automatically filled in when you ran JAVATC? If not, there's still something wrong. You need to see BOTH the Primary and Secondary data to see if your coil is in resonance, so keep working at it until you get both the Primary and Secondary Coil Output Data fields fully populated.
Herr Zapp
Ya Ive read up on the quenching. I finished up the gap last night and have 2 fans installed on either side of the tube. Ill post some images up of it.
After you've input all your data and allowed JAVATC to run, click the "Make Load File" and post it here so we can review the design.
The multi-segment gap will give you improved quenching.
Read this to understand what quenching is, and what improved quenching will do for your coil:
Did the "Primary Coil Output Data" fields NOT get automatically filled in when you ran JAVATC? If not, there's still something wrong. You need to see BOTH the Primary and Secondary data to see if your coil is in resonance, so keep working at it until you get both the Primary and Secondary Coil Output Data fields fully populated.
Herr Zapp
Ya Ive read up on the quenching. I finished up the gap last night and have 2 fans installed on either side of the tube. Ill post some images up of it.
Here's the data that has been requested!
OH and I did get the JAVATC to work fine. My computer had some updates that needed to be loaded and applies. They were firefox updates too so it worked perfectly fine after that!
Registered Member #480
Joined: Thu Jul 06 2006, 07:08PM
Location: North America
Posts: 644
IR -
Oops, I gave you bad info in a previous post.
After running JAVATC, rather than selecting "Make Load File", click "Format Design as Text", then copy and paste. and post here. (Click the question mark next to the "Make Load File" button for complete instructions).
The "Make Load File" option saves the coil's data in a format that can be plugged directly back into JAVATC, the Format Design as Text" gives a human-readable file format.
We need a human-readable file format posted here to review your design.
After running JAVATC, rather than selecting "Make Load File", click "Format Design as Text", then copy and paste. and post here. (Click the question mark next to the "Make Load File" button for complete instructions).
The "Make Load File" option saves the coil's data in a format that can be plugged directly back into JAVATC, the Format Design as Text" gives a human-readable file format.
We need a human-readable file format posted here to review your design.
Herr zapp
Not a problem. I went ahead and tried to do some more precise calculations. So hopefully this is better!
----------------------------------------
------------ Top Load Inputs: ------------------------------------------
----------
--------------------------------------
-------------- Secondary Outputs: -----------------------------------------
----------- 332.06 kHz = Secondary Resonant Frequency 90 deg° = Angle of Secondary 19.25 inch = Length of Winding 58 inch = Turns Per Unit 0.00129 inch = Space Between Turns (edge to edge) 1315.9 ft = Length of Wire 4.28:1 = H/D Aspect Ratio 53.2709 Ohms = DC Resistance 49807 Ohms = Reactance at Resonance 1.01 lbs = Weight of Wire 23.872 mH = Les-Effective Series Inductance 27.859 mH = Lee-Equivalent Energy Inductance 30.005 mH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance 9.623 pF = Ces-Effective Shunt Capacitance 8.246 pF = Cee-Equivalent Energy Capacitance 19.796 pF = Cdc-Low Frequency Capacitance 4.99 mils = Skin Depth 0 pF = Topload Effective Capacitance 220.5959 Ohms = Effective AC Resistance 226 = Q
-----------------------------------------------
----- Primary Outputs: -----------------------------------------
----------- 6.04 kHz = Primary Resonant Frequency 98.18 % high = Percent Detuned 2 deg° = Angle of Primary 52.23 ft = Length of Wire 5.44 mOhms = DC Resistance 0.167 inch = Average spacing between turns (edge to edge) 1.61 inch = Proximity between coils 1.37 inch = Recommended minimum proximity between coils 74.663 µH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance 0.00308 µF = Cap size needed with Primary L (reference) 0 µH = Lead Length Inductance 165.919 µH = Lm-Mutual Inductance 0.111 k = Coupling Coefficient 0.131 k = Recommended Coupling Coefficient 9.01 = Number of half cycles for energy transfer at K 740.02 µs = Time for total energy transfer (ideal quench time)
-------------------------------------------
--------- Transformer Inputs: ------------------------------------------
---------- 120 [volts] = Transformer Rated Input Voltage 12000 [volts] = Transformer Rated Output Voltage 30 [mA] = Transformer Rated Output Current 60 [Hz] = Mains Frequency 135 [volts] = Transformer Applied Voltage 0 [amps] = Transformer Ballast Current 0 [ohms] = Measured Primary Resistance 0 [ohms] = Measured Secondary Resistance
--------------------------------------
-------------- Transformer Outputs: -----------------------------------------
----------- 360 [volt*amps] = Rated Transformer VA 400000 [ohms] = Transformer Impedence 13500 [rms volts] = Effective Output Voltage 3.38 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Primary Current 0.0338 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Secondary Current 456 [volt*amps] = Effective Input VA 0.0066 [uF] = Resonant Cap Size 0.0099 [uF] = Static gap LTR Cap Size 0.0173 [uF] = SRSG LTR Cap Size 66 [uF] = Power Factor Cap Size 19092 [peak volts] = Voltage Across Cap 47730 [peak volts] = Recommended Cap Voltage Rating 1694.93 [joules] = Primary Cap Energy 6738.1 [peak amps] = Primary Instantaneous Current 30.8 [inch] = Spark Length (JF equation using Resonance Research Corp. factors) 6.9 [peak amps] = Sec Base Current
-----------------------------------------
----------- Rotary Spark Gap Inputs: ------------------------------------------
---------- 0 = Number of Stationary Gaps 0 = Number of Rotating Electrodes 0 [rpm] = Disc RPM 0 = Rotating Electrode Diameter 0 = Stationary Electrode Diameter 0 = Rotating Path Diameter
----------------------------------------
------------ Rotary Spark Gap Outputs: -----------------------------------------
----------- 0 = Presentations Per Revolution 0 [BPS] = Breaks Per Second 0 [mph] = Rotational Speed 0 [ms] = RSG Firing Rate 0 [ms] = Time for Capacitor to Fully Charge 0 = Time Constant at Gap Conduction 0 [µs] = Electrode Mechanical Dwell Time 0 [%] = Percent Cp Charged When Gap Fires 0 [peak volts] = Effective Cap Voltage 0 [joules] = Effective Cap Energy 0 [peak volts] = Terminal Voltage 0 [power] = Energy Across Gap 0 [inch] = RSG Spark Length (using energy equation)
---------------------------------------
------------- Static Spark Gap Inputs: ------------------------------------------
---------- 8 = Number of Electrodes 0.5 [inch] = Electrode Diameter 0.1 [inch] = Total Gap Spacing
-----------------------------------------
----------- Static Spark Gap Outputs: -----------------------------------------
----------- 0.014 [inch] = Gap Spacing Between Each Electrode 19092 [peak volts] = Charging Voltage 8775 [peak volts] = Arc Voltage 39347 [volts] = Voltage Gradient at Electrode 87747 [volts/inch] = Arc Voltage per unit 0 [%] = Percent Cp Charged When Gap Fires 0 [ms] = Time To Arc Voltage 0 [BPS] = Breaks Per Second 358.03 [joules] = Effective Cap Energy 9318601 [peak volts] = Terminal Voltage 0 [power] = Energy Across Gap 21.3 [inch] = Static Gap Spark Length (using energy equation)
Registered Member #480
Joined: Thu Jul 06 2006, 07:08PM
Location: North America
Posts: 644
IL -
OK, we're getting closer, but some corrections are still required.
You do understand that the fundamental concept of Tesla coil operation is resonance, right, and that means that the primary and secondary circuits MUST resonate at the same frequency?
So if your secondary circuit is resonating at 332 KHz and your prmary circuit is resonating at 6 KHz, there is something drastically wrong? As XravenorX has pointed out, you input an incorrect valus for your tank capacitor, so fix this, run JAVATC again, and see how your primary resonant frequency changes, and how close it gets to your secondary resonant frequency.
Two other tips: 1. Make sure that you have used the ACTUAL IN-CIRCUIT primary conductor length in your primary inputs. That is, the length of conductor that is actually in-circuit, to your tap point, and not the total length of conductor you used to wind the primary. Any conductor length past the tap point is NOT "in circuit", and does not contribute any inductance to the primary circuit, and therefore does not directly affect resonant frequency.
2. You show the primary lead length as "zero", but that can't be true. This would be the total length of all the interconnecting wiring in your primary circuit EXCEPT the primary coil itself. In other words, the length of all the wiring connecting your MMC and spark-gap to your primary coil, including the length of the wire connected to your adjustable "tap". All this wiring should be as short and direct as possible, and relatively heavy gage, with all soldered or securely bolted connections (except for your tap).
Fix these inputs, and run JAVATC again to see how close the resonant frequencies of your primary and secondary are. If they don't match, adjust your primary conductor length until they do match. Initially shoot for EXACTLY the same frequency, and then as you tune your coil you can experiment with adjusting the coil to get the primary frequency a few percent LOWER than the secondary and see if that improves output.
Once JAVATC shows the primary and secondary circuits are at resonance, adjust your coil's tap point to match.
(Of course, for JAVATC to accurately model your physical coil requires that all your measurements are as precise as possible, and that all your inputs to JAVATC are correct. Careful construction and careful measurement will give amazingly good correlation between JAVATC and your actual coil.)
Ive been really busy with work. Installing new network at work.
Anyways, I few questions cause I am still learning alot with these tesla coils, and I do read up on them to learn more every chance I can get.
As far as the value for my tank capacitors, there at .15 uF. I did notice that I input 9.3nF instead. SO the uF should be 2.4 uF.
For the second tip you have provided, I have used a high voltage GTO wire rated at 15,000.
So your saying the wire from my MMC going to the spark gap and them from the MMC to the adjusting tap needs to be measured and applied with in the "Primary Lead Length" section. And the wire is as short as I can get it (For the tap adjusting wire too)
Registered Member #480
Joined: Thu Jul 06 2006, 07:08PM
Location: North America
Posts: 644
IL -
Uhhh, no. You have miscalculated the capacitance value of your MMC.
To learn how to calculate the value of series-connected capacitors, see:
I assume that your MMC consists of 16 of your .15uF caps connected in series. The resulting capacitance value of your MMC is .009375uF, NOT 2.4uF. Plug the correct capacitance value into JAVATC to get the correct resonant frequency for your primary circuit. Remember, it must match the resonant frequency of your secondary circuit.
GTO wire is not the best choice for your primary wiring. It's insulated for 15 kV, but the conductor is only #14 AWG. Doesn't it seem odd to wind a primary coil with 1/4" copper tubing, and connect it all together with tooth-pick sized wiring? Your primary circuit carries peak currents of hundreds of amps, so the larger the conductor you use (within reason) the lower the resistive losses in the primary circuit. Now you have a relatively small coil, and the losses in the spark gap will far exceed the losses in the primary wiring, but when you get further along in the quest for longer arcs you might consider going to larger primary wiring, like #10 AWG. Again, keep the interconnecting wiring as short and direct as possible.
Yes, all the wiring used to interconnect components in your primary circuit needs to be entered into the "Primary Lead Length" field. Any wiring adds inductance to the primary circuit, and thereby affects the resonant frequency of the primary circuit.
Uhhh, no. You have miscalculated the capacitance value of your MMC.
To learn how to calculate the value of series-connected capacitors, see:
I assume that your MMC consists of 16 of your .15uF caps connected in series. The resulting capacitance value of your MMC is .009375uF, NOT 2.4uF. Plug the correct capacitance value into JAVATC to get the correct resonant frequency for your primary circuit. Remember, it must match the resonant frequency of your secondary circuit.
GTO wire is not the best choice for your primary wiring. It's insulated for 15 kV, but the conductor is only #14 AWG. Doesn't it seem odd to wind a primary coil with 1/4" copper tubing, and connect it all together with tooth-pick sized wiring? Your primary circuit carries peak currents of hundreds of amps, so the larger the conductor you use (within reason) the lower the resistive losses in the primary circuit. Now you have a relatively small coil, and the losses in the spark gap will far exceed the losses in the primary wiring, but when you get further along in the quest for longer arcs you might consider going to larger primary wiring, like #10 AWG. Again, keep the interconnecting wiring as short and direct as possible.
Yes, all the wiring used to interconnect components in your primary circuit needs to be entered into the "Primary Lead Length" field. Any wiring adds inductance to the primary circuit, and thereby affects the resonant frequency of the primary circuit.
Herr Zapp
So what kind of wire do you recommend to make the connections?
My grounding wire that I've been using is some wire I got at Home Depot. Its a thick copper, hard to bend it but doesn't break easily. I think im using 6 gauge wire for the main ground for the NST and the terry filter, and the other grounds I think is 12 gauge wire.
Was told that this wire was a very good wire to use as far as current running through it.
With the primary coil, Ive seen people use stranded insulated wire, copper pipe, copper ribbon and I guess from what your saying is a #10 1 piece solid wire.
Do all of these work just fine as a conductor or is it more just the size in the pipe, ribbon or wire that makes the difference?
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First time Tesla builder, Terry Filter caps popping?
