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Registered Member #53
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:31AM
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 638
It's better off that they have something ready then not. Two years ago there was a nonsense G20 protest in Toronto (next city over to me) the police were told not to use the sound crowd control device and basically to go easy on the protesters. There was looting, arson and millions in damaged property. Had they fired up the "sound cannon" (what the very bias local media called it) I'll bet it would have been a completely different story.
Provided it is only used in case of an emergency what's the problem with being prepared? It seems like people are itchy to protest and mob at the drop of a hat lately, it doesn't do a think for their "cause" and costs money to people who aren't involved.
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Nik wrote ...
It's better off that they have something ready then not. Two years ago there was a nonsense G20 protest in Toronto (next city over to me) the police were told not to use the sound crowd control device and basically to go easy on the protesters. There was looting, arson and millions in damaged property. Had they fired up the "sound cannon" (what the very bias local media called it) I'll bet it would have been a completely different story.
Provided it is only used in case of an emergency what's the problem with being prepared? It seems like people are itchy to protest and mob at the drop of a hat lately, it doesn't do a think for their "cause" and costs money to people who aren't involved.
This is the kind of thing that could 'trigger' a riot in this country.
We had riots (looting, etc) lasr summer in protest at 'heavy handed' tactics employed by police.
Registered Member #53
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:31AM
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 638
Not to troll but protesting "heavy handed" responses to protests is a pretty stupid idea. It doesn't make it right for authorities to over react but when its known that they do its better to take things on in a way that is not is not likely to end in rioting. In the US its you can buy some political power but there are limits up here as to how much money you can "donate" to a politician. I'm not sure how it works for you guys in the UK.
Registered Member #3324
Joined: Sun Oct 17 2010, 06:57PM
Location:
Posts: 1276
I for one dont see any issue in military power around the area, its there if its needed, some people say that if the missiles were used it could kill many lifes stopping a plane crashing into the olympics but may lifes will be lost if it did...
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Steve Conner wrote ...
Nah, the London riots got out of control because the police weren't heavy-handed enough.
The riots were triggered after the police shot 'another' un-armed person in London. Roits don't start for no reason. They always occur as a response to 'something'. But I don't really want to get into a 'debate' on here about it, Steve.
I also understand that the protests in the US were peaceful until the police became 'heavy handed'.
... not Russel! Registered Member #1
Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052
Ash Small wrote ...
Can you give me ONE example of where these weapons have been used in the context you describe, Chris?
Sure. Here's an article from 2004 detailing the deployment of sonic weapons to US troops in Iraq, reporting some initial use in Baghdad: ,2933,113096,00.html . Not sure how that changes anything: these are pretty brutal weapons meant to force crowds of people into compliance through pain, similar to tear gas, microwave pain beams, or just good old fashioned skirmish lines of batons and tasers. As our police forces become more militarized, and our militaries are used as police forces in occupied nations, it should not be terribly surprising that there's starting to be a great deal of overlap in both the weapons and tactics used. It's just one symptom of a larger and disturbing trend, IMO.
Registered Member #1334
Joined: Tue Feb 19 2008, 04:37PM
Location: Nr. London, UK
Posts: 615
Ash Small wrote ...
Steve Conner wrote ...
Nah, the London riots got out of control because the police weren't heavy-handed enough.
The riots were triggered after the police shot 'another' un-armed person in London. Roits don't start for no reason. They always occur as a response to 'something'. But I don't really want to get into a 'debate' on here about it, Steve.
You probably don't want to get into a debate about this as your "facts" are very questionable. The IPCC (Independent Police Complaint Commission) investigated the shooting (as they do all instances where a police firearm is discharged) and:
The IPCC stated that a loaded Bruni BBM blank-firing pistol converted to fire live rounds was recovered from the scene. The IPCC had commissioned tests on the pistol by the Forensic Science Service and had received advice that it was an illegal firearm.[3][9][10][11][12] The gun was wrapped in a sock, a practice allegedly used to avoid leaving evidence if it was used.[13] The IPCC announced on 9 August that there was no evidence that the gun had been fired, that this had not been ruled out and further tests were being conducted.[3][14][15] On 18 November 2011 it was announced that the IPCC was to investigate whether the same gun had been used in an earlier incident, on 29 July 2011, when a man was assaulted in Hackney.[16] Video and other evidence was obtained by the IPCC showing Duggan had obtained the firearm earlier in the day. His fingerprints were found on a cardboard box which appeared to have contained the gun when he collected it. The sock and gun were taken out of the box before Duggan was shot. His DNA and fingerprints were not recovered from the sock which wrapped the gun, nor from the weapon itself.[17]
To get all the quotes "[x]" have a look at the Wikipedia article for the primary sources. i.e. It's FAR from clear that he was unarmed at the time. Yes, the police were poor in the way they handled notifying his family, but I subscribe to the "cockup" rather than "conspiracy" theory, and whatever the sensitivities of that, it in no way excuses what followed.
The facts are that approximately 75% of the rioters arrested had a previous criminal record and 83% of them were already known to the police - this was criminal opportunism, not a political statement however expedient dressing up as such may be. See The Guardian and just about any other reputable paper from any side of the political spectrum...
Registered Member #1334
Joined: Tue Feb 19 2008, 04:37PM
Location: Nr. London, UK
Posts: 615
Steve Conner wrote ... Of course the other side in the debate simply claims that the IPCC are in cahoots with the police.
That was a valid question 4 or 5 years ago but after a major revamp in 2008 it appears to have gone away, i.e. no further examples have been forthcoming.
To be frank, the police have an almost impossible job - whilst with the large number of officers, there are bound to be some rotten apples, the vast majority of officers try very hard to do a very difficult job - one that I certainly could never do.
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