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4hv.org :: Forums :: High Voltage
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Portable Marx Generator Design Help

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HalcyonDaze
Tue Apr 24 2012, 09:27PM Print
HalcyonDaze Registered Member #4584 Joined: Tue Apr 24 2012, 05:32PM
Location:
Posts: 7
I am building a portable Marx Generator. I am using the Ottalini Design, with a few modifications.

The basic design is four stages: a 9 volt power source, which feeds a Royer Oscillator to reach 6 KV, then a Half-Wave Charge Pump the get to 60 KV, which then feeds a ten stage Marx Generator to provide pulses upwards of 600 KV.

For the Power Source I am thinking Ill use an Ultra-capacitor instead of the batteries, for a faster charge time and lifespan. Ill have to sit down and work out a charging scheme for that eventually, but first I want to have the generator itself up and running so that I will know exactly what its requirements will be.

The charge pump is made from 10nf 1000v Caps and 1000v Diodes, simply because I had them on hand. This will limit my output I realize, but I can upgrade and optimize after I get a prototype working.

The Marx ladder is 150nf 30KV Caps, again because they were available. Im still playing with resistors sizes, but it will likely be in the 0.1 to 1 MΩ range.



While Im sure these will not be my last, my current questions are these:

1) Can I use Inductors in place of the resistors to isolate the series circuit against the Pulse, and how would that affect performance (Charge rate, output, etc)? What is the ballpark size would they need to be, given my Caps?

2) Can I use a second, inverted Charge Pump on the other end of the transformer's secondary winding to capture the full wave? Would that force me to center-tap the secondary winding to ground?

3) Transformer... Im a little lost, there are a ton of considerations that go into transformer design, and it seems to be as much an Art anything else. The basics of the oscillator arent tripping me up so much as the geometry of the Core and Windings. The form factor I am aiming for is cylindrical with a diameter of ≈1 inch (to fit inside the hand grip of the device), and a 1:100 step up ratio. Based on availability, I was hoping to wrap it around a 1" "Black iron" steel pipe, Secondary first, with the primary layered over it. My two primary concerns are both safety related, in that I dont want it to generate significant heat, and also want to ensure that nothing is going to arc and do damage to the device or user.



Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated.
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teravolt
Wed Apr 25 2012, 04:13AM
teravolt Registered Member #195 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 08:27PM
Location: Berkeley, ca.
Posts: 1111
hear are some suggestions for transformers. they come with a schematic for a circuit.

Link2

I like the first two with such a small unit I would use resistors although inductors will work. you could use resistive spark plug wire
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HalcyonDaze
Wed Apr 25 2012, 04:09PM
HalcyonDaze Registered Member #4584 Joined: Tue Apr 24 2012, 05:32PM
Location:
Posts: 7
Those are perfect! You make a good point, I probably should get the proof of Concept up and running before I bite off custom HV transformers for this particular project.

Thanks
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Forty
Wed Apr 25 2012, 04:35PM
Forty Registered Member #3888 Joined: Sun May 15 2011, 09:50PM
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 649
Here's some step up transformers for ccfl's that are meant to be driven by a royer Link2

1. They're small
2. You'll need to series the outputs of ~4 of them to get your desired output of 6kv (which may or may not work)
3. They're free. Just click the part number to get a few samples.

Good luck!
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HalcyonDaze
Wed Apr 25 2012, 05:36PM
HalcyonDaze Registered Member #4584 Joined: Tue Apr 24 2012, 05:32PM
Location:
Posts: 7
Wow, I like free. Thanks for the tip!
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Pinky's Brain
Wed Apr 25 2012, 05:38PM
Pinky's Brain Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
Location:
Posts: 837
Generally when inductors are used for Marx generators they are coupled AKA common mode chokes ... they are essentially short during charging.
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Proud Mary
Thu Apr 26 2012, 10:40AM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
I see that "6 kV" from the transformer is delivered to a C&W circuit comprising "6 kV 5mA" diodes. Wouldn't it be good engineering practice to specify these diodes to at least double the peak input voltage if they are to survive for any length of time i.e. 16.8kV, or 20kV to bring it to the nearest preferred value.

Have you calculated the coronal losses on your 600 kV Marx stack yet? Could they exceed the capacity of your Royer thingy?

What will be the nature of the 'portability'? A trolley moving round on a copper floor like a dalek?

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HalcyonDaze
Thu Apr 26 2012, 04:03PM
HalcyonDaze Registered Member #4584 Joined: Tue Apr 24 2012, 05:32PM
Location:
Posts: 7
Proud Mary wrote ...

I see that "6 kV" from the transformer is delivered to a C&W circuit comprising "6 kV 5mA" diodes. Wouldn't it be good engineering practice to specify these diodes to at least double the peak input voltage if they are to survive for any length of time i.e. 16.8kV, or 20kV to bring it to the nearest preferred value.

Have you calculated the coronal losses on your 600 kV Marx stack yet? Could they exceed the capacity of your Royer thingy?

What will be the nature of the 'portability'? A trolley moving round on a copper floor like a dalek?
Im sizing mine down from the standard design. My caps and Diodes are rated for 1kv (because thats what i have on hand, see original post) so I dont plan to pump much more than that into them. But this will not have to face any extended operation, so I expect they will do ok.

No, I have not gotten to calculating coronal losses, Im still trying to peg down a basic design. Im still in the Proof of Concept stage here.

Portable as in a hand held device. Electronics in a cylindrical handle with a long probe for safe distance from the discharge point.
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Proud Mary
Thu Apr 26 2012, 05:09PM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
HalcyonDaze wrote ...

Portable as in a hand held device. Electronics in a cylindrical handle with a long probe for safe distance from the discharge point.

600kV may give you a surprise!
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Inducktion
Thu Apr 26 2012, 06:04PM
Inducktion Registered Member #3637 Joined: Fri Jan 21 2011, 11:07PM
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1068
I gotta say a Dalek with a Marx would be terrifying.

Sounds pretty awesome to have as a pet though!

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