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Registered Member #2893
Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242
Warning, Foolish rambling rant(s) below: I essentially screwed up high school; rather than focusing on coursework I went off to learn my own things. While this has left me with the inventive, critical and entrepreneurial mind I cherish (and will probably end as a lonely wealthy 68 year old man because of), I also managed to fuck up the college admissions process, largely because I was forced to figure it all out myself a few months too late.
So now I'm going to be at RIT. While it's one of the best regional schools around and has near-mit level coursework, there's nothing new going on there. No grad programs, no scientific innovation; nothing where I can really show what I'm capable of. It's just a school, and from what I've been hearing it's also a pretty depressing one.
Unfortunately, all the schools that have this cutting edge science are very, very hard to transfer into. Caltech (6%), MIT(2%), Stanford(2%). Some are a bit better like UPenn(14%) and Chicago(14%). I know if I study hard at RIT I can get the grades needed, but what can I can do to stand out from the crowd?
Sure, the whole point of college is to prepare you for a job, and I suppose RIT is great for that. But hell, I already have a summer job lined up at moog. Sure some people would be satisfied with that, but, engineering just isn't my thing. I'm not that guy in a suit who has to be at a board meeting in 30 minutes or he's fired. That high-stress high-reward environment is what I enjoy, and if I were to join an engineering firm I'd go to the business side of things. Be that guy who would either become a CEO or die trying.
I enjoy the challenge, and the stock options that'd come along with success.
Registered Member #49
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:05AM
Location: Bigass Pile of Penguins
Posts: 362
You remind me a lot of a former member; he had a very similar attitude. He was an amusing fellow, if not a popular one, but I liked him. Eventually he got arrested on weapons and child porn charges... but no one's perfect.
Anyway, this is not a troll, though I already know from the chat room that you'll take it as such. But you asked for advice so here you go.
The biggest investment you can make in yourself at this point is a change in attitude. Its hard to own your mistakes... you're making a facsimile of that here, maybe even a step in the right direction, but really you're just offering a list of excuses.
Case in point... For every person who says:
gren wrote ...
I essentially fucked up high school; rather than focusing on coursework I went off to learn my own things. While this has left me with the inventive, critical and entrepreneurial mind I cherish (and will probably end as a lonely wealthy 68 year old man because of), I also managed to fuck up the college admissions process, largely because I was forced to figure it all out myself a few months too late.
There is at least one with the balls to say:
wrote ...
I fucked up highschool by ignoring the things I considered beneath me and focusing only on my hobbies and interests. I did learn a lot, but I know now that being smart isn't enough. I also blew the college admissions process because I just didn't put enough effort into it or obtain the help I needed and can only blame myself.
And likewise for every one who says:
gren wrote ... So now I'm likely going to be stuck at RIT. While it's one of the best regional schools around and has near-mit level coursework, there's nothing new going on there. No grad programs, no innovation; nothing where I can really show what I'm capable of. It's just a school, nothing more. From what I've been hearing it's also a pretty depressing one.
There is one who is ready to say:
wrote ... Having made my bed I now intend to make the best out of things and lie in it. I can accept that, smart as I am, there is plenty for me to learn at RIT because I don't know everything. Frankly I'm grateful that they took me, and I understand that by judging them I am also judging myself... because they are my peers.
Now if you were a reviewing admissions (or transfer) applications, which of those two candidates would you take? Yes, some self aggrandizement is expected, and even appropriate, when applying for college. But you have to be very careful not to end up in Aleksey Vayner territory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksey_Vayner)... and if this post is any indication I'm guessing you're one ballroom dance short.
The last bits of your post...
gren wrote ... I'm not all that interested in these schools for the coursework, more for contacts I'd make by attending. I'd like to find influential people doing innovating stuff; something which I've been searching for for damn near my whole life. Something I probably won't find at RIT.
Sure, the whole point of college is to prepare you for a job, and I suppose RIT is great for that. But hell, I already have a summer job lined up at moog. Sure some people would be satisfied with that, but, engineering just isn't my thing. I'm not that guy in a suit who has to be at a board meeting in 30 minutes or he's fired. That high-stress high-reward environment is what I enjoy, and if I were to join an engineering firm I'd go to the business side of things. Be that guy who would either become a CEO or die trying.
I enjoy the challenge, and the stock options that'd come along with success.
... are just complete bullshit. For one, influential people can be found anywhere. More importantly, however, networking depends on making those people like you... and thats where a new attitude is going to come in handy.
If you really think the point of college is to prepare you for a job then you're missing the point. One of the most important parts of college is making awkward highschoolers into tolerable human beings; thats why they'll have you doing bullshit group projects with morons in Psych 101... you'll be able to prove your intelligence at that point by finding what you can learn in those situations; like how to work with others who are intellectually different than you, manage projects that aren't your interests or expertise, etc.
Registered Member #65
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155
Your made two errors in reasoning: 1. Trying to figure this out on your own 2. Assuming schools teach people success
Lets start with point 2, Having 3500 untrained people compete for the same jobs every year means little chance of success. Many students end up competing for the same equivalent $12/h job in china once the externalized training costs, interest, and taxes are tallied. Part of holding a good position is keeping silent around people desperate to know everyone's business, avoiding those who devalue themselves and are willing to live at home till they are in their 30's. Do not compete to be at the bottom, and know the game was always fixed to exploit your common sense. Most schools drag people into a debt they will not pay-off for 10 years. Many graduates "Magically" switch majors after they leave school as company HR people and staffing agencies can't tell the difference. Trade-schools accept a large portion of credits, and so it is often where the unemployable grads end-up anyways.
Back to point 1, Fresh certifications are good for potential jobs, but depending on the area a Masters/Phd student will actually be unlikely to land stable position. You need to have a clear notion of what you want prior to walking into anyplace that will get paid for >your< time. Unfortunately, a tap-dancing degree does not qualify people to design anything.
When you are ready... go to a college to do your first year of university, and make sure to choose credits that transfer into the program you are interested in attending. Note, in most cases a high school GPA does not mean anything as long as you graduated.
Also, many top rated universities have top rated dropout rates too. The chances you will make it into third year is around 32%, and people seem proud of that number in some places. From a social context view, most people who are at the top usually hang out in closed special interest groups, network with staff, and argue with TAs like a lawyer.
Registered Member #30
Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
+1 on everything, especially the bullshit. You didn't get into a fancy school, just accept that and get on with it.
I bet those influential people you admire are good at getting on with it and fixing up the mess when things don't go the way they want, since that undoubtedly happens in business deals all the time. They would probably end up CEOs irrespective of what school they went to.
That is the best advice I can give, seeing as I know nothing about the American admissions process.
Registered Member #2893
Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242
Points taken, actually the first post was more of a depression induced rant than an actual arguement. To be honest though a part of it was my fault for not realizing how the system works, but another part I still leave blame to my school, especially my guidance counselor. If there was ever a woman who could do a worse job I'd like to meet her.
I'd still like to transfer though, just to prove to myself that I am capable of it. Aside from getting great marks in my classes though, what could I possibly do to stand out from the crowd? I want to preform scientific study, but I'm not going to get that at RIT unfortunately.
RE: carbon rod,
2. I'm well aware. I've always believed that "You can't fix stupid and you can't teach competence". Luckily for me, I am one of those people that can master anything they put their mind to. Hell, I went from knowing nothing about PHP to coding a tumblr-level system in about 4 months; with no formal schooling at all. Though it was a disappointment that that venture did not succeed it certainly taught me some valuable lessons about human nature...
Back to the point though, I can do a damn good job at whatever I intend to do, and that's something which I feel will determine my success. If nothing else my investment plan should still leave me with a minimum of $200k to retire at 50 with.
1. Transfer rates are the inverse of dropout rates, from what I understand. That means a school which accepts 2% of applicants has lost 2% of its class to drop-outs, whereas a school that accepts 30% has lost 30%. I suppose it's a good indicator of how people like the school.
RE: Steve
The American education system is a bigger mess than sub-saharan Africa.
Registered Member #49
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:05AM
Location: Bigass Pile of Penguins
Posts: 362
gren wrote ...
Points taken, actually the first post was more of a depression induced rant than an actual arguement. To be honest though a part of it was my fault for not realizing how the system works, but another part I still leave blame to my school, especially my guidance counselor. If there was ever a woman who could do a worse job I'd like to meet her.
Sigh. Obviously Rome wasn't built in a day.
gren wrote ... I'd still like to transfer though, just to prove to myself that I am capable of it. Aside from getting great marks in my classes though, what could I possibly do to stand out from the crowd? I want to preform scientific study, but I'm not going to get that at RIT unfortunately.
I'm not saying you shouldn't transfer... but you should do so after you've embraced your school and found that, truly, you'll be so much better off somewhere else that the lost time and credits that a transfer will inevitably cost you will be worth it.
I suspect a good way to know when transferring makes sense will be when you can give real concrete reasons why you want to go to school X or Y, as opposed to just listing three top tier schools and claiming "thats where the networking happens."
gren wrote ... 2. I'm well aware. I've always believed that "You can't fix stupid and you can't teach competence". Luckily for me, I am one of those people that can master anything they put their mind to. ... Back to the point though, I can do a damn good job at whatever I intend to do, and that's something which I feel will determine my success.
... except for college admissions?
gren wrote ... If nothing else my investment plan should still leave me with a minimum of $20m to retire at 50 with.
Holy shit, you are Alexsey Vayner.
gren wrote ... 1. Transfer rates are the inverse of dropout rates, from what I understand. That means a school which accepts 2% of applicants has lost 2% of its class to drop-outs, whereas a school that accepts 30% has lost 30%. I suppose it's a good indicator of how people like the school.
Wrong. Enrollment simply shrinks... in difficult programs (like engineering) attrition is often as high as 50% per year. They are not replaced with transfer students.
Registered Member #65
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155
@gren Your response to 1. is not causal. Please review Simpson's paradox:
I would recommend this path: redo pre-calculus -> Calculus I -> Linear Algebra I -> Physics w/ Calculus I -> Linear Algebra II -> Statistics I -> Logic /Philosophy -> Chemistry I -> Biology I -> Economics I
Your story makes me want to get off the computer and study for next period's class, though I know all the vocab words. (I am in a computer class, I finished all my work for the week already). Gren why did you fuck up high school if you knew that it will affect you in the future? :-/ I fucked up this quarter's grades...
Registered Member #1643
Joined: Mon Aug 18 2008, 06:10PM
Location:
Posts: 1039
Well in my case i didnt give much at all during highschool just bearly passed my classes. I go to a community college, if i WANT i can take classes here that are required, and transfer to a university. Which, im not. I didnt try at all during high school, maybe got a 2.4GPA or something, college required 2.0 GPA, and im doing fine, passing classes with A's or B's. I understand in your case you want to get into a high-end college to start with, which is a different story.
Well gren, hope things go well for you. I cant tip much, because i went an easy path, as i already had a career line, and possible places to start at. Ina year or two i shall start at a low pay of 15/hour n work up. But do whatever fits your needs. I have friends who skipped college fully, they applied for a job, the job trained them on-site, making 30/hour, working up...
I fucked up highschool knowing it wouldnt really matter...for my case, it didnt at all. Always passed classes with C's and D's not much caring. Doing just fine.
Registered Member #207
Joined: Sat Feb 18 2006, 05:14PM
Location:
Posts: 45
Gren:
Circumstances aside, there's another point to be made here. If some stranger were to wander into this thread, and read your perspective and replies, what would they think about your character?
I understand your first post was a "depression induced rant", but you haven't done much to redeem yourself. A switch from depressive to arrogant isn't an improvement.
The fact of the matter is that you're just a kid and you should be using this time to embrace your mistakes and build your future. You should embrace your ignorance and use it to your advantage as opposed to reassigning blame. Instead of trumpeting your supposed genius ("Hell, I went from knowing nothing about PHP to coding a tumblr-level system in about 4 months"), you should realize that, in the real world, it doesn't mean anything. Aside from the other kids in the school yard, you wont impress anyone with that kind of statement. It's no big deal, and you stating it arrogantly will only result in your peers, who probably also learned PHP in four months, judging you detrimentally.
You want to be a businessman. You even said you desired to be a CEO one day. It seems as though you have a lot to learn about working with and inspiring people to believe in you.
Again, you're young. Utilize this time in your life to embrace your ignorance. Because, really, there's no way for you to know what's out there. Focus on personal development, regardless of the path, with an emphasis on humility.
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