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Dave Marshall

Tue Feb 21 2012, 05:06AM

Registered Member #16 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 02:22PM
Location: New Wilmington, PA
Posts: 554

I would side with Forty here.

This forum focuses on science and technology. Politics is a polarizing topic (no pun intended), and the trouble is that there are some people who are incapable of separating the opinion from the person.

We've encountered these folks before many times on 4HV. Some seemingly mundane difference of opinion in the chat room or on the forum leads to vicious personal attacks that always end badly for the aggressor, and frequently causes collateral damage among other members who wade in to the fray, or just happen to get caught in the cross fire. It really is best to just head off the problem by banning the topic entirely.

If you want to discuss politics, you can use Facebook, or Reddit, or any of the thousands of unmoderated IRC channels. It has no place here in my opinion.

The only time I really can envision politics being applicable to this forum directly would be regarding laws/regulations/legislation that directly impacts our hobby and/or our ability to pursue it, so perhaps a *very* narrow exception could be spelled out for such.

jpsmith123

Tue Feb 21 2012, 05:31AM

Registered Member #1321 Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843

You end your "let's not have anything 'political' here" rant with "Romney '12"? LOL! Is that supposed to be an example of "talking out of both sides of our mouths"?

BTW, even scientific related topics invariably involve "opinions" (as well as generally agreed upon facts).

ScotchTapeLord wrote ...

People who want to have political conversations can seek out a political forum.

Politics is a game and just tends to stir up trouble. This is a science forum, where we should be dealing with facts, not talking out of both sides of our mouths.

Romney '12.

ScotchTapeLord

Tue Feb 21 2012, 01:11PM

Registered Member #1875 Joined: Sun Dec 21 2008, 06:36PM
Location:
Posts: 635

[quote]
You end your "let's not have anything 'political' here" rant with "Romney '12"? LOL! Is that supposed to be an example of "talking out of both sides of our mouths"?

;D

jpsmith123 wrote ...

BTW, even scientific related topics invariably involve "opinions" (as well as generally agreed upon facts).

People don't tend to get so worked up about opinions regarding scientific topics. Political opinions incite rallies, protests, youtube videos, facebook groups, the works... An opinion regarding science tends to get a "No, I don't think so" at worst. Of course then there are unbased scientific opinions (pseudoscience), which, while not being allowed here, can create an uproar, though, not on the same scale as issues which are political.

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Wed Feb 22 2012, 02:55AM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

"People don't tend to get so worked up about opinions regarding scientific topics. Political opinions incite rallies, protests, youtube videos, facebook groups, the works... An opinion regarding science tends to get a "No, I don't think so" at worst. Of course then there are unbased scientific opinions (pseudoscience), which, while not being allowed here, can create an uproar, though, not on the same scale as issues which are political."

Yea, I don't know how to use the quote thingie, so pfft.

This statement caused me to chuckle a little. All I have to do is mention Evolution and Christians, and this stament turns into fluff.

No, I'm going to have to disagree with the line of reasoning quoted above, it all depends on the subject matter and the target audience, or if you prefer, target VICTIM.

It's probably likely that any political argument will just end up in a shallow "Do as I say, not as I do" opinion, so you guys are probably right to scrap the idea. Sometimes it is better to Err on the side of caution and censorship to protect the feelings of all, and limit collateral damage.

Hell, even talking about politics is political.

Just my two Euro's worth.

ScotchTapeLord

Wed Feb 22 2012, 01:00PM

Registered Member #1875 Joined: Sun Dec 21 2008, 06:36PM
Location:
Posts: 635

4HV is not a democracy nor do I believe it should be. I'm more than happy with the tyrannical rule that governs this forum. If I weren't, I would leave. So long as the powers that be are funding, running, and modding it, I see it fit to trust in their judgment regarding their own site. Keeping the peace should be the first priority.

jpsmith123

Wed Feb 22 2012, 05:17PM

Registered Member #1321 Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843

If you really would vote for Romney as you indicated (or any of the other establishment puppets), I suppose we could infer that you're not opposed to tyranny in general. (Sorry I couldn't resist that).

Anyway, I agree with you 100% that the owners of this forum can do whatever they want, since it's their forum.

That said, I would offer one final thought before I retire from this thread: Anyone not living in a closet can see that all of our rights and freedoms are under systematic attack. Clearly, a very dangerous, very oppressive agenda is being methodically implemented.

In light of this, in my view, "politics" has become a very serious business; i.e., the stakes are very high. If nobody pushes back, and soon, against the madmen pushing this agenda, we're not going to have things like hobbies, as the U.S. (and God only knows how much else of the world) will be a smoking ruin. Thus in a sense I see a certain amount of political discussion as an obligatory moral and civic duty.

ScotchTapeLord wrote ...

4HV is not a democracy nor do I believe it should be. I'm more than happy with the tyrannical rule that governs this forum. If I weren't, I would leave. So long as the powers that be are funding, running, and modding it, I see it fit to trust in their judgment regarding their own site. Keeping the peace should be the first priority.

Steve Conner

Wed Feb 22 2012, 06:54PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Granted (maybe!) but is there anyone we can vote for who won't do that?

As I see it, the problem is with the system itself, maybe even with human nature. Whenever there's a need for leadership, the people who get into power are the ones who're best at grabbing and manipulating their way into power, by definition. If you have the ambition and drive to mount a successful challenge to this, you may actually be part of the problem.

ScotchTapeLord

Wed Feb 22 2012, 07:20PM

Registered Member #1875 Joined: Sun Dec 21 2008, 06:36PM
Location:
Posts: 635

So many millions spent on campaigning. I would rather see a quiet presidential race and have them donate it to charity. My father told me that back in the day, presidential candidates didn't campaign much because they were supposed to be "above it." But I guess some focus group somewhere drew up a cost-benefit diagram and decided otherwise, and the precedent was set. It's a shame, really, that politics seems to have adopted a "pay-to-win" model. If only people took voting as seriously as gaming.

I say we all just vote for whoever campaigns the least. That'll show'em!

Steve Conner

Wed Feb 22 2012, 08:03PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Great idea, except if they campaign so little that you never know they exist!

I think somewhere along the line, someone realised that Joe Public pays more attention to advertising than facts. If the concept of facts even has any meaning in politics or law.

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