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Steve Conner

Fri Jul 21 2006, 10:24AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

I've been into programming since I was a kid. I started out in BASIC but got frustrated because I couldn't get anything done. Later on I tried 68k assembler on the Amiga (because that's what all the cool gamez d00dz were using) but I just couldn't do a thing with it.

Eventually when I was doing my PhD, I tried programming PICs in assembler, and the penny kind of dropped then. The PIC has a nice small and simple instruction set, it makes a great "My First Assembler". I went on to program Analog Devices DSPs in assembler too. It wasn't till I had written a menu-driven user interface in assembler that I realised why C is the way it is, and why you ought to use it instead of assembler for projects like that. >_<

These days, pretty much everything has a C compiler, and you only need assembler if you want to squeeze absolutely all the performance out of the chip. Given the relative costs of hardware and programmer time, that's not really economical these days unless you're going to make a million of the device. But I'd still recommend trying something like PIC assembler, just so you know what's going on underneath all that compilation.

Tom540

Fri Jul 21 2006, 02:47PM

Banned on 3/17/2009.
Registered Member #487 Joined: Sun Jul 09 2006, 01:22AM
Location:
Posts: 617

Hmm well I suck at programming I'd like to try assembler and c eventually but I'm not that great of a programmer. In fact it's safe to say I suck a little at it.

Steve Conner

Fri Jul 21 2006, 03:11PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Hey, I wouldn't say that. I checked out your site and your bots look great. Was it PICs running Mikrobasic you used for those?

Part Scavenger

Fri Jul 21 2006, 03:17PM

Registered Member #79 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 11:35AM
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 673

Sweet! You guys are great!

Some Quick Questions:
1. Is basic the same as basic on the computer? and C?

2. In general, you have to have a different programmer for each different series of chips/manufacturers right?

Thanks for info! I'm going to build my board and get some samples right away!

...

Fri Jul 21 2006, 03:36PM

Registered Member #56 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445

1. Sorta. Every version is a little diferent, but all basic is about the same, and all c is about the same.

2. You can use the same programmer for most pic's, you just need to have a way to connect to the correct pins on each pic A common way to do that is to put a connector with the pins used for programming on the programmer, and another on the board(s) with the pic. The simple programmers (like the jdm) also support a lot of other chips from other manufactures (but you might need a diferent piece of software to program them)

Conundrum

Fri Jul 21 2006, 10:19PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

I've used a program called Pic Simulator IDE, works very well.
Last time I checked it even supported HD44780 LCD displays and 120*64 graphicals.
Demo version obtainable :)
Regards, -A

Carbon_Rod

Sun Jul 23 2006, 12:00PM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

Sophisticated Robot walkers are not easy to build â€“ many people fail to even get something to stand up. However, I would recommend looking at Darpaâ€™s ridicules looking pack mule video for a four leg gate cycle (one never quite figures out whatâ€™s wrong with real mules in this case.) Also, the slow motion cockroach run footage may give you some ideas too. Keep in mind if your robot is well designed up scaling it should not be too much of an issue.
Learn ANSII C as it will allow you to reuse your code (if its well written then it will require little or no modification for PICs, AVRs, DSPs, SOCs, and whatever. Avoid compiler specific macro languages.)

I like pics because they are cheap and reliable (Microchips $857 P18 compiler was a dog product in my opinion â€“ but works.) AVRs are better performers, easy to program, and come with a free gcc compiler.

thom

Wed Jul 26 2006, 11:56AM

Registered Member #239 Joined: Thu Feb 23 2006, 03:15AM
Location: canada
Posts: 23

Carbon_Rod wrote ...

Learn ANSII C as it will allow you to reuse your code (if its well written then it will require little or no modification for PICs, AVRs, DSPs, SOCs, and whatever. Avoid compiler specific macro languages.)

I like pics because they are cheap and reliable (Microchips $857 P18 compiler was a dog product in my opinion â€“ but works.) AVRs are better performers, easy to program, and come with a free gcc compiler.

Yes, if you prefer working with C I would recommend the AVR, they were designed for this purpose.

Lots of C code examples are available (ie hd44780 functions). Writing/compiling can be done in AVR Studio with avr-gcc plugin, both are free.

medium size (23 I/O):
Atmega48 $1.90
Atmega168 $3.50

Oh and a lot of people starting out like the butterfly board, for the price its great. I'm not sure who would have it in stock though.

However, the free pic samples do sound tempting...

Bjørn

Wed Jul 26 2006, 02:16PM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

If you are not interested in something very small then go for something modern and efficient with the power of an old PC like the 32 bit http://www.futurlec.com/ET-ARM_Stamp.shtml

Part Scavenger

Sun Jul 30 2006, 03:56PM

Registered Member #79 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 11:35AM
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 673

Thanks for all the replies guys! You've been indispensable.

I've been doing research on all the chips you guys suggested, and I realized I'm probably going to ruin a bunch of chips as I'm learning. I'd like to get something that is re-programmable but is as similar as I can get to the PIC chips and has an assembler for C. What would you guys suggest?

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