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GFH

Mon Jan 09 2012, 05:35AM

Registered Member #4324 Joined: Mon Jan 09 2012, 03:16AM
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada
Posts: 35

Good day all,

First let me apologize for this post if the information is elsewhere. I just can't seem to put it all together and I am under time constraints

My son came home and said he needed to build something for a science fair project. I sad "cool, what is it?"

"An Anti gravity lifter" he says. I go "Way cool"..So I look at the info he dug up seemed easy enough except it needed a HV power supply. "Way cool" just became a PITA

So I began Googling. As you can surmise I have come up with plenty of ways to do it but not one I would say is complete. They are missing part numbers, schematics are inconclusive or simply state connect the FBT and your done.

Can someone PLEASE direct me to or give me a HV Flyback transformer power supply plans around (30kv) that will work?? Mosfet, 555, transistor makes no difference as long as one can figure out the plans.

The biggest pain is saying dig a FBT out of an old TV and use it. Except every FBT I find in a TV is completely different from the next and different from what is shown in plans. So plans with a tad more detail regarding the FBT would be great as well.

many thank sall.

I sincerely appreciate it.

Gord

Patrick

Mon Jan 09 2012, 07:36AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

You should be able to whip up a usable HV source for his purpose.
My thread here is the best i can do ->

flybacks vary and dont expect to find exact info on them. Your effort does not need to include so much as mine.

And just for clarity, stay away from the "anti-gravity" phraseology... especially if this is for a science teacher.
They are electro-kinetic devices, just as Newton would expect force--reaction pairs to behave. The Mythbusters and others have eliminated "anti-gravity" as a possibility in this devices operation.

They're still fun and way cool to play with, even for college students like me, just dont blow stuff up or burn stuff down.

EDIT: i first used a neon sign transformer a 12kV one, it just plug into the 120Vac socket, for my first gen lifters. kinda lame but it worked.

My carbon fiber 12" equalateral triangle lifter.

And from the top.

Instrumentation, anemometer and differentiential pressure meter.

All up, with everything needed to fly it wheighs just 6 grams, and operates from 30-45kV...

Some advice, dont bulid it heavy, build it so light and flimsy youll expect it to fall apart, build several, youll burn them or break them. The DeSeversky ion-wind effect is very weak even when you have enough V and I.

GFH

Mon Jan 09 2012, 04:57PM

Registered Member #4324 Joined: Mon Jan 09 2012, 03:16AM
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada
Posts: 35

Thanks Patrick

Sorry about the "Antigravity" moniker. It's what my kid called it when he first came home :) I'll call it what it is from now on.

I realize that there are a lot of different types of flybacks. I have three different ones sitting in front of me.

I'll go through your post and figure it out.

Perhaps you can clear something up for me

The one FBT I have has the HV out plus two others. Now as I can deduce, I use the HV line out (obviously) but I have to find the negative or other end of this line on the PIN end using a meter or whatever.

Save for the one pin that would serve as the negative for the HV line all other pins and lines are not used.

When folks talk about wraps around the core , I assume they mean taking appropriate wire and wrapping the exposed vertical ferrous "bar".

I have seen schematics which have say 10 wraps with a third tap off the center (wrap 5 lets say). Would one merely expose a bit of bare wire at this point and solder a third one on at this point?

Many thanks

Gord

H8erade

Mon Jan 09 2012, 10:08PM

Registered Member #3451 Joined: Sun Nov 28 2010, 11:13PM
Location: United States
Posts: 100

GFH wrote ...

I have seen schematics which have say 10 wraps with a third tap off the center (wrap 5 lets say). Would one merely expose a bit of bare wire at this point and solder a third one on at this point?

You can do that.
Usually, I just wrap two five-turn coils and connect them. The connection between them can be used as a center tap.

Platinum

Mon Jan 09 2012, 10:21PM

Registered Member #3926 Joined: Fri Jun 03 2011, 08:32PM
Location: UK.
Posts: 525

What driver will you be using, if you have no experience with HV, or building circuits, I suppose you can try to get a low power NST, or try a CFL ballast or halogen transformer ballast, they provide enough power you can get them up to 250W (halogen) , and that's alot of power for a lifter.

You can check my thread on halogen transformer flyback driver success. Very simple to make, all you need is a flyback, and a halogen transformer, and some wire...

Antonio

Mon Jan 09 2012, 10:36PM

Registered Member #834 Joined: Tue Jun 12 2007, 10:57PM
Location: Brazil
Posts: 644

Here are my "lifter" experiments and some power supply plans (the second picture is the best). I used the normal primary windings of the transformers. Simpler power supplies are possible, but too simple ones are unsafe and don't last for more than a few seconds.

GFH

Mon Jan 09 2012, 11:43PM

Registered Member #4324 Joined: Mon Jan 09 2012, 03:16AM
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada
Posts: 35

Hi guys,

Thanks for the ideas.

This HV stuff is new to me, electronics is not.
I planning on a FBT. Either the simple this one with 2 - 2n3035's

or the ZVS one on the same page just couldnt find the mosfets today.

Some say they require power supplys capable 12-24 volts and 5-10Amps while other operate on a 9 volt cell.

I don't know whos right :)

Platinum, I'll take a look at your thread, just have to find it.

What I've come to is that there are no wrong ways to build one (well ok there are but I'm talking about ones that work) and 100 + right ways.

Platinum

Tue Jan 10 2012, 12:28AM

Registered Member #3926 Joined: Fri Jun 03 2011, 08:32PM
Location: UK.
Posts: 525

Antonio wrote ...

Here are my "lifter" experiments and some power supply plans (the second picture is the best). I used the normal primary windings of the transformers. Simpler power supplies are possible, but too simple ones are unsafe and don't last for more than a few seconds.

That's very good as input is 11Watts, I've tried to make a lifter but failed numerous times, maybe I shall try with the ZVS.

Patrick

Tue Jan 10 2012, 01:40AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

i would wrap 10 -20 turns (no tap) around the ferrite leg, then use a single MOSFET or IGBT driven by a 555 timer, then use a computer UPS battery, a large one. maybe two in series...

To find the ground pin you hold the red fat wire near the horse shoe pins, which ever it sparks and arc to most fiercely is the ground pin.

the difference with power sources is total power avaibale, IE a 9 volt battery wont get a lifter up.

Alex M

Tue Jan 10 2012, 02:41AM

Registered Member #3943 Joined: Sun Jun 12 2011, 05:24PM
Location: The Shire, UK
Posts: 552

I would say a halfbridge might be the best option for a reliable lifter. The ZVS doesn't give much voltage, only high current which is not what is required for this to work. And single MOSFET drivers always fail within about 10 minutes of play.

How ever a large power supply is needed for large 3 inch igniting arcs.

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