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Registered Member #30
Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
No, it's the physics of the thing. When a vibrating object produces sound, the sound pressure is proportional to the acceleration. Therefore, to get a flat frequency response, you need constant acceleration. As displacement is the double integral of acceleration (high school calculus here) for every octave you go down, the vibrations must get 4x larger in terms of distance.
This is why you can see hi-fi woofer cones flapping when they reproduce bass, but at higher frequencies the vibrations are too small to see. It also explains the need for separate woofers and tweeters in the first place.
In other words, to make a reasonable level of bass, you would need a really monstrously big ball of plasma. Luckily this is 4hv.org and not DIYAudio.
Years ago the McIntosh audio company were considering putting plasma tweeters in their speaker systems. They lab tested some, but they couldn't find one that outperformed a good quality tweeter of the everyday electromagnetic type. I imagine the situation is still the same.
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Isnt there an issue with a product for sale to the general public with electrocution and or burning your car/house down with an open arc...
im sure corporations' legal departments go ape sh*t when an engineer/scientist comes up with a great idea, that can kill some idiot who isists on putting his fingers in the wrong place.
I wonder about the real reason plasma speakers havent been adopted, besides they're really cool to look at!
Besides bass is the job of the woofer, as Mcconnor alluded to.
Registered Member #30
Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
Commercial plasma tweeters always had the arc enclosed inside a grounded metal horn, so the customer couldn't burn himself, and the horn makes the sound louder too.
The original Dukane Ionovac had the arc inside a little quartz cell at the end of the horn. Making the cell last a long time without melting or cracking was a huge issue. There is a good Ionovac information site, and a few hardcore hi-fi nuts still run them.
Many other plasma tweeters have come and gone, including one that needed a cylinder of argon. There is still one extremely expensive unit available, from a German high-end audio maker, Acappella.
Nobody has ever made a plasma woofer, which is where you lunatics come in.
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Steve Conner wrote ...
Commercial plasma tweeters always had the arc enclosed inside a grounded metal horn, so the customer couldn't burn himself, and the horn makes the sound louder too.
The original Dukane Ionovac had the arc inside a little quartz cell at the end of the horn. Making the cell last a long time without melting or cracking was a huge issue. There is a good Ionovac information site, and a few hardcore hi-fi nuts still run them.
Many other plasma tweeters have come and gone, including one that needed a cylinder of argon. There is still one extremely expensive unit available, from a German high-end audio maker, Acappella.
Nobody has ever made a plasma woofer, which is where you lunatics come in.
Didnt realize there were production devices already marketed, ill have to look at these examples more closely.
Registered Member #1875
Joined: Sun Dec 21 2008, 06:36PM
Location:
Posts: 635
A plasma woofer... I don't think it would be too easy to stabilize an arc of that size! At those levels of power, you would have a writhing, fluttering flame of death... still worth a try, I guess.
Registered Member #3429
Joined: Sun Nov 21 2010, 02:04AM
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 288
Dr. Duck wrote ...
I think the main issue with plasma speakers is their inability to reproduce bass effectively...
I believe this is a result of the transformer acting as a sort of low pass filter to the lower frequencies in the music.
If there were some way of getting rid of this low pass filter effect, then I'm sure the arc would be able to reliably make bass frequencies.
Is there any way to make high frequency AC, without the low pass effect? Maybe some sort of modulated high voltage boost converter?
Or maybe a modulated CW?
Maybe use an audio output transformer from a tube amplifier? Since it's iron, it'd be able to pass the lower frequencies better i'd think.
Any ideas?
I've done a lot of experimenting and constructing with various types of plasma speakers / tweeters, (see my project here: ) and over the past few months, I've asked many of the same questions as you have. Just as other guys have stated in this and other threads concerning plasma speakers, the issue is basic physics. I tried modulating my plasma arc by running my audio source through a sub-woofer amplifier, which has a "low pass" transfer function. The resulting arc flickered like crazy on the bass notes, and the resulting sound was terribly distorted. If I reduce the modulation level to the point where most of the distortion is gone, and the bass sounds nice and "clean" the sound level is so low that I needed to put my ear right up to, nearly touching, the arc (OUTCH! THAT HURTS! LOL). But seriously, I haven't given up on it. Like the guy who keeps hoping he's going to eventually hit the lottery jackpot if just keeps on playing the odds, I'm (maybe unrealistically) hoping that I will be able to design a working plasma woofer. It may never happen, but it sure is a fun, educational, and rewarding exercise in futility! LOL
Registered Member #4052
Joined: Thu Aug 11 2011, 04:43AM
Location: IN ,USA
Posts: 69
What if several flybacks were paralleled and ran from the same driver. It would give the displacement of a huge arc but with the controllability of a small arc.
Registered Member #3429
Joined: Sun Nov 21 2010, 02:04AM
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 288
M.A.D. wrote ...
What if several flybacks were paralleled and ran from the same driver. It would give the displacement of a huge arc but with the controllability of a small arc.
Just a thought, I might be wrong though.
Nope, won't work for several reasons. But sure, you could theoretically create a huge arc (say, the size of a VW bus) that would be able to reproduce very low bass tones, but the electronics and associated components (not to mention the price tag!) would also be very large, and therefore would not be practical. The real challenge is to design a reasonably good sounding plasma speaker that is safe to use, has no consumable components, and would sell in the price range of most other high-end standard "cone" speakers. I'm working on that challenge (as time permits).
Registered Member #4052
Joined: Thu Aug 11 2011, 04:43AM
Location: IN ,USA
Posts: 69
Well that is far too many requirements for what I was thinking, I was picturing something more along the lines of the huge ball of death that makes some thumping base.
However you are quite correct that this would not be marketable to the public in any way.
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Plasma Speakers and their Pitfalls
