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My Tesla Coil isn't working...Solved

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LAN_403

Cookieworks

Mon Nov 28 2011, 11:12AM

Registered Member #4229 Joined: Sat Nov 26 2011, 03:19AM
Location: Somewhere in the State of Michigan
Posts: 20

Here is the new info:

J A V A T C version 12.5 - CONSOLIDATED OUTPUT
Monday, November 28, 2011 10:04:44 AM

Units = Inches
Ambient Temp = 68Â°F

------------------------------------------- ---------
Surrounding Inputs:
------------------------------------------ ----------
60 = Ground Plane Radius
60 = Wall Radius
96 = Ceiling Height

------------------------------------------ ----------
Secondary Coil Inputs:
------------------------------------------ ----------
Current Profile = G.PROFILE_LINEAR
1.75 = Radius 1
1.75 = Radius 2
18 = Height 1
0 = Height 2
738 = Turns
23 = Wire Awg

--------------------------------------------- -------
Primary Coil Inputs:
------------------------------------------ ----------
Round Primary Conductor
2.5 = Radius 1
6.682 = Radius 2
0 = Height 1
0 = Height 2
6.6887 = Turns
0.125 = Wire Diameter
0 = Ribbon Width
0 = Ribbon Thickness
0.023 = Primary Cap (uF)
36 = Total Lead Length
0.1 = Lead Diameter

---------------------------------------- ------------
Top Load Inputs:
------------------------------------------ ----------
Toroid #1: minor=3, major=10, height=19.5, topload

----------------------------------------- -----------
Secondary Outputs:
----------------------------------------- -----------
298.22 kHz = Secondary Resonant Frequency
90 degÂ° = Angle of Secondary
18 inch = Length of Winding
41 inch = Turns Per Unit
0.00182 inch = Space Between Turns (edge to edge)
676.2 ft = Length of Wire
5.14:1 = H/D Aspect Ratio
13.653 Ohms = DC Resistance
19313 Ohms = Reactance at Resonance
1.04 lbs = Weight of Wire
10.307 mH = Les-Effective Series Inductance
9.692 mH = Lee-Equivalent Energy Inductance
8.576 mH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance
27.634 pF = Ces-Effective Shunt Capacitance
29.387 pF = Cee-Equivalent Energy Capacitance
32.039 pF = Cdc-Low Frequency Capacitance
5.26 mils = Skin Depth
10.069 pF = Topload Effective Capacitance
61.3277 Ohms = Effective AC Resistance
315 = Q

----------------------------------------------- -----
Primary Outputs:
----------------------------------------- -----------
298.22 kHz = Primary Resonant Frequency
0 % = Percent Detuned
0 degÂ° = Angle of Primary
16.08 ft = Length of Wire
10.67 mOhms = DC Resistance
0.5 inch = Average spacing between turns (edge to edge)
0.676 inch = Proximity between coils
0 inch = Recommended minimum proximity between coils
11.227 ÂµH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance
0.023 ÂµF = Cap size needed with Primary L (reference)
1.193 ÂµH = Lead Length Inductance
40.744 ÂµH = Lm-Mutual Inductance
0.131 k = Coupling Coefficient
0.128 k = Recommended Coupling Coefficient
7.63 = Number of half cycles for energy transfer at K
12.66 Âµs = Time for total energy transfer (ideal quench time)

------------------------------------------- ---------
Transformer Inputs:
------------------------------------------ ----------
120 [volts] = Transformer Rated Input Voltage
5500 [volts] = Transformer Rated Output Voltage
27 [mA] = Transformer Rated Output Current
60 [Hz] = Mains Frequency
120 [volts] = Transformer Applied Voltage
0 [amps] = Transformer Ballast Current
0 [ohms] = Measured Primary Resistance
0 [ohms] = Measured Secondary Resistance

-------------------------------------- --------------
Transformer Outputs:
----------------------------------------- -----------
149 [volt*amps] = Rated Transformer VA
203704 [ohms] = Transformer Impedence
5500 [rms volts] = Effective Output Voltage
1.24 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Primary Current
0.027 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Secondary Current
149 [volt*amps] = Effective Input VA
0.013 [uF] = Resonant Cap Size
0.0195 [uF] = Static gap LTR Cap Size
0.034 [uF] = SRSG LTR Cap Size
27 [uF] = Power Factor Cap Size
7778 [peak volts] = Voltage Across Cap
19445 [peak volts] = Recommended Cap Voltage Rating
0.7 [joules] = Primary Cap Energy
352.6 [peak amps] = Primary Instantaneous Current
17.6 [inch] = Spark Length (JF equation using Resonance Research Corp. factors)
12.2 [peak amps] = Sec Base Current

----------------------------------------- -----------
Static Spark Gap Inputs:
------------------------------------------ ----------
2 = Number of Electrodes
0.125 [inch] = Electrode Diameter
0.11147 [inch] = Total Gap Spacing

----------------------------------------- -----------
Static Spark Gap Outputs:
----------------------------------------- -----------
0.111 [inch] = Gap Spacing Between Each Electrode
7778 [peak volts] = Charging Voltage
6500 [peak volts] = Arc Voltage
38751 [volts] = Voltage Gradient at Electrode
58310 [volts/inch] = Arc Voltage per unit
83.6 [%] = Percent Cp Charged When Gap Fires
12.917 [ms] = Time To Arc Voltage
77 [BPS] = Breaks Per Second
0.49 [joules] = Effective Cap Energy
181840 [peak volts] = Terminal Voltage
38 [power] = Energy Across Gap
17.4 [inch] = Static Gap Spark Length (using energy equation)

Now it is perfectly in tune. New capacitance is 0.023 and the caps add up to 6500VAC. Two strings in parallel with 13 in series per line. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.
-Cookieworks

Cookieworks

Mon Nov 28 2011, 09:48PM

Registered Member #4229 Joined: Sat Nov 26 2011, 03:19AM
Location: Somewhere in the State of Michigan
Posts: 20

Well, that didn't work, so I thought it would be the appropriate time to post the pictures of my setup. The problem is still persisting, as suckish as it may seem. Follow this link. It will take you to a google site that has the pictures. It is to much of a hassle to post 13 pictures on this forum.

Cookieworks

Tue Nov 29 2011, 02:10AM

Registered Member #4229 Joined: Sat Nov 26 2011, 03:19AM
Location: Somewhere in the State of Michigan
Posts: 20

Is there any way someone out there can tell me why my spark gap will not fire? I have tried anything and everything that you guys have told me to do. Please help me out here, or this will be the third failed tesla coil that I have made. I posted a link to the pictures in the last post.
-Cookieworks

Herr Zapp

Tue Nov 29 2011, 04:18AM

Registered Member #480 Joined: Thu Jul 06 2006, 07:08PM
Location: North America
Posts: 644

Cw -

Let's start at the very beginning, and work through this one step at a time:

1. What does the label on your "NST" say? Gaseous tube power supply? 5500 volts is an odd rating for a conventional iron-core neon sign transformer; how do you know that this is not a solid-state power supply, rather than a NST?

Is the "NST" housing steel sheet-metal, or plastic?

Herr Zapp

Cookieworks

Tue Nov 29 2011, 08:35PM

Registered Member #4229 Joined: Sat Nov 26 2011, 03:19AM
Location: Somewhere in the State of Michigan
Posts: 20

the exact words on the transformer are "Neon Power Supply." I have opened up the transformer case, which is plastic, several times to do framework modifications to make mounting easier. The transformer core is some brittle dark-colored metal... I would assume that it is iron in some form because it does seem to be magnetic (Not itself, but I can stick a magnet to it). On the subject of inside, there are a bunch of electronic components under the casing. It is probably the driver, but I would venture to say that it takes up a good 2/3s of the casing. The transformer unit itself is about 2.5" long. The primary is about 1.5-2" long, and the secondary is encased in a black 1.5 inch plastic cube. How can I tell if it is a solid state or not?

Other information

*This information is taken from the casing. All is word for word.*

Make: Everbrite Electronics
Model: Evertron
Series: 2610
PIN:800-0125
Input: 120VAC 2.0A 50-60Hz
Output: 5.5kV 27mA 20kHz
MFG.:2107
Indoor Type 7
There is also a thing that says "Mid-point Referred" next to the info panel.
PDF file about the transformer can be found here:

I have found nothing on it about Solid State or not.
A little note at the bottom of the info panel notes that the transformer has a GFCI built into it. I have removed the GFCI circuit with ease, so it has never been a problem.
-Cookieworks

Inducktion

Tue Nov 29 2011, 08:42PM

Registered Member #3637 Joined: Fri Jan 21 2011, 11:07PM
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1068

... Because it outputs 20 kHZ frequency, I can tell you right now you have a Solid State neon sign transformer. You'll need to find an older one or a different one that basically outputs the same frequency as the input. The black brittle sounding stuff is called ferrite, and is used in switch mode power supplies, or in this case, solid state neon sign transformers. Because they have electronics inside of them, they usually have OC detection and probably a regulation circuit built in as well; basically, if you draw too much current it won't work at all.

Also, it says solid state right on the first page, towards the top.

Solid state ones won't work in Tesla coil duty.

Cookieworks

Tue Nov 29 2011, 08:52PM

Registered Member #4229 Joined: Sat Nov 26 2011, 03:19AM
Location: Somewhere in the State of Michigan
Posts: 20

I didn't even notice that! Haha Well, that's usually where stuff is hiding... right in plain sight. How about this one?

It seems to be a normal one. Might it work?
-Cookieworks

Inducktion

Tue Nov 29 2011, 10:09PM

Registered Member #3637 Joined: Fri Jan 21 2011, 11:07PM
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1068

are two good ones to look at.

Cookieworks

Tue Nov 29 2011, 11:10PM

Registered Member #4229 Joined: Sat Nov 26 2011, 03:19AM
Location: Somewhere in the State of Michigan
Posts: 20

Something I don't get- Why can't you use SS transformers in teslas?
-Cookieworks

Inducktion

Wed Nov 30 2011, 12:15AM

Registered Member #3637 Joined: Fri Jan 21 2011, 11:07PM
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1068

Because of several reasons. SS transformers don't like short circuit conditions; which is effectively what you're trying to do for periods of time with a Tesla Coil. (a capacitor acts as as short when empty, and thus the SS transformer says no, and doesn't allow voltage to go through to protect itself, if there really WAS a short circuit)

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