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Registered Member #480
Joined: Thu Jul 06 2006, 07:08PM
Location: North America
Posts: 644
Cw -
As a beginning experimenter without much familiarity in working with HV, USE BLEEDER RESISTORS. Replace the 20k ohm components with 10 megohm resistors.
However, I have a feeling that the error with bleeder resistor value might not be your only problem. What's the resonant frequency (either calculated or measured) of your secondary circuit?
You do have your capacitors in series right? 5.5KV is quite small, so your spark gap is going to be very small as well. It almost sounds like you have a short in your capacitor bank. Do you have a picture of your actual setup?
To Andyman: Um... Shouldn't they be in parallel?
To thread: Hm... In mine, I used a safety spark gap. But adding to the thread... maybe it's the distance. 6mm is a huge difference from 7mm. Also, your spark gap should be a proper one-- one with good electrodes. I used cabinet door handles. Also... Something may be shorting somewhere. I remember once, I couldn't find out why it wasn't firing, and then all of a sudden, one of my capacitors started shooting a longer arc than my coil currently produces (I await caps from the awesome dude Kizmo--I am using leyden jars). It may not be your cap's problem, but maybe something to do with the primary? Maybe the other end is not connected or the secondary is shorting to it so it goes directly to ground? We always look for big problems, when it is usually a tiny problem. I hope your coil works... it's taken me 8 months to build my first... and counting. Some people took three years, so...:D
Registered Member #4229
Joined: Sat Nov 26 2011, 03:19AM
Location: Somewhere in the State of Michigan
Posts: 20
The calculated resonant frequency of both the secondary and primary circuits is 393.6KHZ(sorry; typo). Whether or not the secondary is connected to the rest of the device does not affect what the thing does. Removing the resistors did not help at all either. It is still doing the same thing. I'm going to post a video of the issue so you guys might be able to help me more. When you put the lead from the caps to the primary on, the spark gap is supposed to start flashing... right? If that is what it is supposed to do, that's not what it's doing.
To the discussion about my capacitors: For the values that I want, the Capacitors are both in line and in series. All together, the MMC I have put together is 10,000 Volts and 0.015 microfarads. Each individual capacitor is rated at 500VAC and 0.15 microfarads. I have two parallel lines of these, and each line has 20 capacitors in series. So in that case, those of you who say parallel are correct, as are those of you who say series.
Sorry for the low quality video. I had to make it under 25mb. -Cookieworks ]my_movie.wmv[/file]
Registered Member #480
Joined: Thu Jul 06 2006, 07:08PM
Location: North America
Posts: 644
Cw -
I can assure you that the resonant frequency of your system is NOT "393.6 MHz".
How about taking the time to enter all your coil's design parameters into JAVATC (including the topload dimensions) , and then post the output file here. Experienced Tesla coil builders on the 4HV forum will review your design, and tell you if there are any problems.
JAVATC can be used "online", or downloaded from:
In the majority of cases, the reason a first-time coil "doesn't run" is because there is an error in matching the resonant frequency of the primary and secondary circuits, and the coil can't be brought into "tune"
-----------------------------------------
----------- Secondary Outputs: -----------------------------------------
----------- 298.2 kHz = Secondary Resonant Frequency 90 deg° = Angle of Secondary 18 inch = Length of Winding 41 inch = Turns Per Unit 0.00182 inch = Space Between Turns (edge to edge) 676.2 ft = Length of Wire 5.14:1 = H/D Aspect Ratio 13.7127 Ohms = DC Resistance 19312 Ohms = Reactance at Resonance 1.04 lbs = Weight of Wire 10.307 mH = Les-Effective Series Inductance 9.692 mH = Lee-Equivalent Energy Inductance 8.576 mH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance 27.637 pF = Ces-Effective Shunt Capacitance 29.391 pF = Cee-Equivalent Energy Capacitance 32.042 pF = Cdc-Low Frequency Capacitance 5.26 mils = Skin Depth 10.067 pF = Topload Effective Capacitance 61.3256 Ohms = Effective AC Resistance 315 = Q
-----------------------------------------------
----- Primary Outputs: -----------------------------------------
----------- 359.3 kHz = Primary Resonant Frequency 17 % low = Percent Detuned 0 deg° = Angle of Primary 16.64 ft = Length of Wire 11.09 mOhms = DC Resistance 0.5 inch = Average spacing between turns (edge to edge) 0.676 inch = Proximity between coils 1.8 inch = Recommended minimum proximity between coils 11.823 µH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance 0.02178 µF = Cap size needed with Primary L (reference) 1.258 µH = Lead Length Inductance 41.696 µH = Lm-Mutual Inductance 0.131 k = Coupling Coefficient 0.128 k = Recommended Coupling Coefficient 7.63 = Number of half cycles for energy transfer at K 10.51 µs = Time for total energy transfer (ideal quench time)
-------------------------------------------
--------- Transformer Inputs: ------------------------------------------
---------- 120 [volts] = Transformer Rated Input Voltage 5500 [volts] = Transformer Rated Output Voltage 27 [mA] = Transformer Rated Output Current 60 [Hz] = Mains Frequency 120 [volts] = Transformer Applied Voltage 0 [amps] = Transformer Ballast Current 0 [ohms] = Measured Primary Resistance 0 [ohms] = Measured Secondary Resistance
--------------------------------------
-------------- Transformer Outputs: -----------------------------------------
----------- 149 [volt*amps] = Rated Transformer VA 203704 [ohms] = Transformer Impedence 5500 [rms volts] = Effective Output Voltage 1.24 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Primary Current 0.027 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Secondary Current 149 [volt*amps] = Effective Input VA 0.013 [uF] = Resonant Cap Size 0.0195 [uF] = Static gap LTR Cap Size 0.034 [uF] = SRSG LTR Cap Size 27 [uF] = Power Factor Cap Size 7778 [peak volts] = Voltage Across Cap 19445 [peak volts] = Recommended Cap Voltage Rating 0.45 [joules] = Primary Cap Energy 277.1 [peak amps] = Primary Instantaneous Current 17.6 [inch] = Spark Length (JF equation using Resonance Research Corp. factors) 11.9 [peak amps] = Sec Base Current
-----------------------------------------
----------- Rotary Spark Gap Inputs: ------------------------------------------
---------- 0 = Number of Stationary Gaps 0 = Number of Rotating Electrodes 0 [rpm] = Disc RPM 0 = Rotating Electrode Diameter 0 = Stationary Electrode Diameter 0 = Rotating Path Diameter
----------------------------------------
------------ Rotary Spark Gap Outputs: -----------------------------------------
----------- = Presentations Per Revolution [BPS] = Breaks Per Second [mph] = Rotational Speed [ms] = RSG Firing Rate [ms] = Time for Capacitor to Fully Charge = Time Constant at Gap Conduction [µs] = Electrode Mechanical Dwell Time [%] = Percent Cp Charged When Gap Fires [peak volts] = Effective Cap Voltage [joules] = Effective Cap Energy [peak volts] = Terminal Voltage [power] = Energy Across Gap [inch] = RSG Spark Length (using energy equation)
---------------------------------------
------------- Static Spark Gap Inputs: ------------------------------------------
---------- 2 = Number of Electrodes 0.125 [inch] = Electrode Diameter 0.16696 [inch] = Total Gap Spacing
-----------------------------------------
----------- Static Spark Gap Outputs: -----------------------------------------
----------- 0.167 [inch] = Gap Spacing Between Each Electrode 7778 [peak volts] = Charging Voltage 7778 [peak volts] = Arc Voltage 36680 [volts] = Voltage Gradient at Electrode 46584 [volts/inch] = Arc Voltage per unit 100 [%] = Percent Cp Charged When Gap Fires 6.515 [ms] = Time To Arc Voltage 153 [BPS] = Breaks Per Second 0.45 [joules] = Effective Cap Energy 175707 [peak volts] = Terminal Voltage 70 [power] = Energy Across Gap 19.2 [inch] = Static Gap Spark Length (using energy equation)
Hope this helps. I will tune it later, because it is obviously out of tune. -Cookieworks
Registered Member #480
Joined: Thu Jul 06 2006, 07:08PM
Location: North America
Posts: 644
Cw -
OK, THIS is where I was trying to lead you. With your secondary resonating at 298 KHz and your primary at 359 KHz, your coil is grossly out of tune. To reduce the resonant frequency of your primary circuit, you can increase the capacitance value of your MMC by taking some capacitors out of circuit, or add more primary conductor. Use JAVATC to generate some different capacitance/wire length configurations and see which is easiest to implement.
Next, post some detailed photos of every part of your coil, especially each of the connections between NST, MMC, and spark gap.
Simultaneously, re-check that all your connections match the schematic. Make sure that your secondary has a good, short connection to a solid earth ground (or a counterpoise, if that's what you are using). Readjust your spark gap to about 1/16" and apply power. Your gap should start firing immediately, regardless if the coil is out of tune. Once the spark gap is firing, hold a small fluorescent lamp near the top of the secondary and see if any RF is being generated.
Your MMC is grossly overdesigned for a 5.5kV, 27ma transformer, but that won't affect it's operation. You could have used only 10 capacitors in series, rather than 40 capacitors in a series/parallel arrangement, but maybe you'll get a more robust transformer some day and be able to use this MMC to its full capability.
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My Tesla Coil isn't working...Solved
