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Any particular reason for 60 hz?

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Inducktion
Sat Nov 26 2011, 02:03AM Print
Inducktion Registered Member #3637 Joined: Fri Jan 21 2011, 11:07PM
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1068
From what I understand, wouldn't a higher frequency be more efficient...for, everything?

What set out the 60/50 hz standard? Why pick such a low frequency in the first place? It's not like Vacuum tube rectifiers were slow, correct?

If they chose a higher frequency, you wouldn't have to have such bulky transformers...
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IamSmooth
Sat Nov 26 2011, 02:37AM
IamSmooth Registered Member #190 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 12:00AM
Location:
Posts: 1567
I've heard all kinds of reasons: 50hz because it fits into the metric system, 50hz because it was just the first frequency that was used...

For the US I've heard that Tesla thought 60hz was the best; 50hz wasn't good enough so an engineer upped the frequency to 60hz and people wanted it just like that; 60hz because that was close to what the turbines could spin at during the that time; 60hz because it fit into the time table (60 seconds). I even heard someone say that 60hz was a good frequency for the electric chair.

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radiotech
Sat Nov 26 2011, 08:30AM
radiotech Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
When Westinghouse needed to operate an alternative to the Edison DC
system for lighting, the 25 cycle they had used for the first Niagara-Mohawk system,
created flicker with lightbulbs at the time. 60 Hz did not

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Steve Conner
Sat Nov 26 2011, 08:42AM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
In the early days of Tesla's AC system, he tried power frequencies as high as 167Hz. Parts of Canada used to use 25Hz, and German railways still use 16.7Hz.

This is a legacy from before rectifiers sturdy enough to drive around on a train were developed: they used series wound brush motors fed with raw AC, and the lower frequency made more torque, because the inductance of the motor didn't limit the current so much.

Aircraft use 400Hz because it makes the electrical plant lighter. (The opposite problem to railways, where if anything the heavy electrical gear would give a locomotive better grip.) The newer ones have a power frequency that varies over a wide range depending on engine speed.

So as you can see the choice of frequency is a compromise, and most equipment would not choose 50 or 60 if it had the choice. Modern switched mode power supplies convert it to DC and then invert it again at a more favourable frequency, often 100kHz or more. They will run off any mains voltage and frequency from 95 to 260V, 50 to 400Hz, and even DC. So your laptop or plasma TV would probably run fine off one of Tesla's early generators. Or Edison's, it wouldn't care.

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Pinky's Brain
Sat Nov 26 2011, 11:33AM
Pinky's Brain Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
Location:
Posts: 837
They probably wouldn't care, but their power factor would be atrocious.
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Steve Conner
Sat Nov 26 2011, 11:38AM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
Why would the power factor be bad? Most power supplies have a PFC front end now, and those work at any frequency. I have one here that claims to work from 47-440Hz plus DC.
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Pinky's Brain
Sat Nov 26 2011, 11:41AM
Pinky's Brain Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
Location:
Posts: 837
47 is higher than 16 or 25 isn't it? The lower the frequency the more energy the PFC has to store to supply the switched mode power supply during the troughs.

PS. oops, nevermind ... didn't read your post correctly.
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Tetris
Sun Nov 27 2011, 10:33PM
Tetris Registered Member #4016 Joined: Thu Jul 21 2011, 01:52AM
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 660
Because Tesla chose that number. It says in Margaret Cheney's biography of him but i forgot... tongue

BTW the book title is Margaret Cheney's Tesla, Man out of Time.
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Inducktion
Mon Nov 28 2011, 04:49PM
Inducktion Registered Member #3637 Joined: Fri Jan 21 2011, 11:07PM
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1068
I do love the way 60 hz sounds. Maybe it's also a good thing, as I probably couldn't stand hearing a constant high pitched squeal if the frequency was in hearing range.

If they could change it, do you think they would?
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Ash Small
Mon Nov 28 2011, 05:22PM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
On our side of the pond it's 50Hz @ 240V.

I still 'crank up' my genny from 3000 RPM to 3600 RPM, and get 60Hz @ 300V
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