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4hv.org :: Forums :: General Chatting
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Fukushima

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Sulaiman
Tue Feb 11 2014, 12:03PM
Sulaiman Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3141
I think that a remote controlled helium balloon would be better for indoor use,
virtually unlimited flight time,
low power hovering,
negligible draughts/wind to disturb scene .....

Probably (with an emergency deflate option etc.) better for outdoor surveying at Fukushima too, on non-windy days, for the same reasons as above.
Possibly enough lift to support radiation shielding for the electronics?

worst case ... a sniper could easily bring down the craft ... a good feature.
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Patrick
Tue Feb 11 2014, 05:22PM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Balloon drones have low power and long duration advantages, but terrible positioning and payload capabilities.i have seen this first hand.
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Sulaiman
Tue Feb 11 2014, 06:16PM
Sulaiman Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3141
was the control circuitry for the balloon as sophisticated as for the 'copter?

e.g.adding a helium balloon on a string to an existing 'copter
surely indoors the only change would be less downdraught for the same lift
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Proud Mary
Tue Feb 11 2014, 09:34PM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Many foreigners in Fukushima fled after crisis, news reporting questioned The Japan Times Link2
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Patrick
Wed Feb 12 2014, 02:15AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Sulaiman wrote ...

was the control circuitry for the balloon as sophisticated as for the 'copter?

e.g.adding a helium balloon on a string to an existing 'copter
surely indoors the only change would be less downdraught for the same lift
it appears not to be this simple.
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Proud Mary
Fri Feb 14 2014, 11:13PM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Record cesium found in Fukushima water - The Japan News Link2
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Proud Mary
Mon Feb 17 2014, 03:45PM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Lack of bids threatens to keep Fukushima evacuees in temporary lodgings The Japan Times Link2
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Proud Mary
Wed Feb 19 2014, 10:18AM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
How TEPCO plans to build an ice wall at Fukushima - Nuclear Engineering International Link2
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Sulaiman
Wed Feb 19 2014, 12:34PM
Sulaiman Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3141
If they can build an ice wall
(which seems a deliberately short-term policy)
then surely they can build a concrete wall
(if necessary directly behind the temporary ice wall)
so the question is; why go for a temporary solution with obvious failure modes?
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Proud Mary
Wed Feb 19 2014, 03:41PM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Sulaiman wrote ...

If they can build an ice wall
(which seems a deliberately short-term policy)
then surely they can build a concrete wall
(if necessary directly behind the temporary ice wall)
so the question is; why go for a temporary solution with obvious failure modes?

Perhaps the plan intends to freeze solid and keep frozen the entire ground around the reactors, which would stop the flow of aqueous fluids, but not necessarily (radioactive) ions which can migrate through water ice faster than you'd think.

See here: Ionic Migration in Frozen Soils and Ice Link2,d.d2k and here: Link2,d.d2k&cad=rja

As we saw admitted last month, there is as yet no plan, as no one knows what to do about the corium, so we are seeing only plans and investigations preparatory to making a Grand Plan, so I guess that freezing the ground is the best stop-gap measure they can think of.

I wonder if they have considered the possible formation of ice lenses and displacement of the ground by frost heave: Link2

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