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Fukushima

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Ash Small
Wed Jan 22 2014, 01:07AM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Proud Mary wrote ...

Here as a point of reference are two pictures of solidified corium at Chernobyl.


1390332891 543 FT127504 Chernobyl Corium 2

1390332929 543 FT127504 Chernobyl Corium 1


I've seen those photo's before, but do we know if they are 'pure corium' or corium that's mixed with 'other stuff', before it cooled?
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Proud Mary
Wed Jan 22 2014, 08:47AM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Ash Small wrote ...

Proud Mary wrote ...

Here as a point of reference are two pictures of solidified corium at Chernobyl.


1390332891 543 FT127504 Chernobyl Corium 2

1390332929 543 FT127504 Chernobyl Corium 1


I've seen those photo's before, but do we know if they are 'pure corium' or corium that's mixed with 'other stuff', before it cooled?

I have the impression that corium isn't a homogenous substance, but is a vitreous conglomerate of metals (U, Zr, Hf etc) bound up with metallic and non-metallic destruction debris. I'm only guessing, Ash, but I'd have thought that the composition of corium varied widely from one disaster to another, and from one phase of a meltdown to another.

Chernobylite, for example, (which is a component in Chernobyl corium) is crystalline zirconium silicate - zircon - containing a solid solution of uranium. I imagine that the zircon was produced by the fusion of zirconium fuel rod cladding with quartz sand in concrete or silicate ceramics like porcelain used in refractory construction materials.
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Sigurthr
Wed Jan 22 2014, 09:50AM
Sigurthr Registered Member #4463 Joined: Wed Apr 18 2012, 08:08AM
Location: MI's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 597
Every time I see those photos of the Chernobyl elephant foot I think of the poor fellows who were in that room to photograph it and had no clue of the fate that awaited them. At least we have unmanned exploratory tools now.

I wonder how much radioactive material entered the ocean from test bombs compared to fuku estimates.
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Proud Mary
Wed Jan 22 2014, 01:34PM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Sigurthr wrote ...

I wonder how much radioactive material entered the ocean from test bombs compared to fuku estimates.

I can't answer that, but I do know that the entire history of anthropogenic radioactive pollution is recorded layer upon layer in the natural archives of coral reefs and ice caps and childrens' teeth.
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Ash Small
Wed Jan 22 2014, 02:24PM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Proud Mary wrote ...


I have the impression that corium isn't a homogenous substance, but is a vitreous conglomerate of metals (U, Zr, Hf etc) bound up with metallic and non-metallic destruction debris. I'm only guessing, Ash, but I'd have thought that the composition of corium varied widely from one disaster to another, and from one phase of a meltdown to another.

Chernobylite, for example, (which is a component in Chernobyl corium) is crystalline zirconium silicate - zircon - containing a solid solution of uranium. I imagine that the zircon was produced by the fusion of zirconium fuel rod cladding with quartz sand in concrete or silicate ceramics like porcelain used in refractory construction materials.


I would concur. I would imagine that 'pure corium' (for want of a better term) would not cool and solidify, and that the uranium, plutonium, etc. would have to be fairly widely 'dispersed' in the resulting compound before such cooling and solidification could occur.
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Proud Mary
Wed Jan 22 2014, 03:24PM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
The Wikipedia article about Corium is quite detailed, and brings in destruction processes I hadn't given much thought to: Link2
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Patrick
Wed Jan 22 2014, 08:35PM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
I dont know whats scarier, "corium" itself, or the fact that its so common and significant they have a special name for it.
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Proud Mary
Wed Jan 22 2014, 08:59PM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Patrick wrote ...

I dont know whats scarier, "corium" itself, or the fact that its so common and significant they have a special name for it.

It's scary at the moment because it's still very much an unknown quantity, but when everyone gets to know about it there won't be anyone left to be scared.

A corium flow can contain latent critical masses within it.
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Patrick
Wed Jan 22 2014, 09:24PM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
regions of "local criticality", and not a control rod or shielding in sight.
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Proud Mary
Wed Jan 22 2014, 10:57PM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Patrick wrote ...

regions of "local criticality", and not a control rod or shielding in sight.

From what I have read about the storage of high-level nuclear waste, proposed geological repositories must be stable for at least 100,000 years with some authorities saying up to one million years - and the social institutions that monitor and guard them must also be stable for that length of time, a kind of social stability that has never happened before in human history.

Corium must surely count as high-level waste, with the added hazard of regions of 'local criticality' that might detonate if its controlling parameters were changed - by moving it for example - so talk of cleaning up Fukushima in 40-plus years cannot mean anything more for the corium mass than perpetual entombment, while all the top soil in the region is bulldozed into vast 'graveyards of the Earth' as was done in Russia after the Kyshtym disaster of 1957.
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