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Finally, something The Man wants to clamp down on that might actually be a ralistic threat

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jpsmith123

Sat Oct 01 2011, 05:06AM

Registered Member #1321 Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843

I remember the good ol' days, when people would get an actual trial before being executed. When the government had to actually back up its claims with some evidence, before it could mete out punishment.

Nowadays, after having declared a war with no boundaries, i.e., no temporal, legal, moral, political, or geographical constraints, apparently we get to replace that messy and sometimes tedious rule of law nonsense with the much more streamlined concept of Presidential whim.

Call me old fashioned, but in a way I kind of miss those days - before things like "rights", "national sovereignty", etc., became such serious impediments to our rulers' selfless efforts to destroy "evil" wherever it may lurk.

Patrick wrote ...

Sorry for double posting but with new info I cant wait.

Anwar Al Awlaki is dead, he ate 18 lbs of RDX in Yemen today. Our UAV's are better then their UAV's. Unfortunatley having better UAV's wont decide who wins wars or survives terror attacks.

6 years of UAV/drone use has proven them to be highly successful at raining death upon a chosen mark.

Patrick

Sat Oct 01 2011, 05:34AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

i agree within the US, peace officers and trials are the only legitamate means of the use of force to confine or kill a person.

However, to argue every non-uniformed unlawful combatant in the world has constitiutional rights is absurd. If you choose to consipre with the enemy you can and should be removed by martial means. I can usually see two sides of an argument but not this time.

I dont want my hobby stores closed because the govenerment has "safety concerns". Thats not good enough.

jpsmith123

Sat Oct 01 2011, 12:04PM

Registered Member #1321 Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843

Pure nonsense.

First of all, this guy was a U.S. citizen; second, who are you or Obama or anyone else to label him as an "enemy combatant" or anything else without some kind of due process? It seems the point went over your head. Anybody can SAY anything they want to about anybody.

Third, if the "U.S. government" can violate any other country's sovereignty, at will, without any regard for law or anything else, then somebody else can do the same here, including the "U.S. government", no? Do you really think the evil that they're doing overseas right now they won't someday be doing domestically?

Lastly, you'll note that when they slaughter people with missiles fired from drones they usually end up killing other people in the vicinity too. Don't any of these other people have any rights either? (BTW look at what they're doing in Libya right now. They seem to be finding whole towns and cities filled up with "enemy combatants" that need to be slaughtered; people whose only apparent "crime" is that they're not willing to be ruled by gangsters).

Patrick

Sat Oct 01 2011, 05:05PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

I dont want to take this further off topic, but for all the other projects we work on together -- i predict you and i will not agree on this matter.

testtest

Sat Oct 01 2011, 05:08PM

Registered Member #3271 Joined: Mon Oct 04 2010, 02:29AM
Location: Canada
Posts: 159

Interesting, paranoia at work. How long before this whole website be banned and we get hauled out to re-education camps.

Patrick

Sat Oct 01 2011, 05:47PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

richnormand wrote ...

Interesting, paranoia at work. How long before this whole website be banned and we get hauled out to re-education camps.

Im sure DHS has already considered it! You know its for our own good. If you know anything about science, engineering or technology then you could be a threat. God help you if you "know too much" about aviation (like me).

Conundrum

Sun Oct 02 2011, 05:39AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

I wonder how we could go about finding out how many 4HV members are on whatever watch list/etc ?

-A

jpsmith123

Sun Oct 02 2011, 04:17PM

Registered Member #1321 Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843

The real "threat" is people who know something about real History (i.e., not the fairy tales they teach in school) or people who have some moral competency, and speak out against the establishment's crimes.

Let's face it if there really was a problem with "terrorism" in this country we'd be seeing it, and we're not. There are lots of soft targets in this country that "terrorists" could easily attack, without knowing much about science or engineering, so why aren't they? They aren't because the whole "war on terror" thing is a fraud. It seems the best our Masters can do is find some disgruntled misfit somewhere and entrap, encourage or otherwise somehow manipulate them into doing some juvenile act. The hapless "shoe bomber" and the "underwear bomber" come to mind.

If someone really wanted to "terrorize" the U.S., why would they attack the the heavily protected airlines, for example, while our food supply and our electric power distribution infrastructure sits there basically unguarded? Why not a "Mumbai" type attack somewhere? Because the whole thing is nothing but a cartoonish fraud, dreamt up by arrogant people who have nothing but contempt for the intellect of the average person.

And now I see where colleges are even starting to offer a degree in "Homeland Security". The fraud has become an institution.

And BTW they did the same thing with the fraudulent "cold war". It was nothing but a series of lies and exaggerations and needless provocations used as a fig leaf to advance an anti-American imperial agenda. History repeats.

Patrick wrote ...

richnormand wrote ...

Interesting, paranoia at work. How long before this whole website be banned and we get hauled out to re-education camps.

Adam Munich

Wed Oct 05 2011, 04:44AM

Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242

Conundrum wrote ...

I wonder how we could go about finding out how many 4HV members are on whatever watch list/etc ?
-A

We're all on every list.

This can't keep up forever. Sooner or later, the government is going to do something that will piss everybody off, and in a country where 4 in 10 people own a firearm, it's not going to be pretty for the feds

. After all, the average lifespan for a civilization is 250 years, and we're around the 230 mark right now.

Every election has been swinging either farther to the right or the left than ever before, and laws are made for the good of the politicians rather than the people. We are pissing away money on futile wars, while our home front is crumbling. Red tape scares off businesses, and the government pays for those who choose not to work. Our currency and economy continues to devalue, while we spend and spend countless dollars to no avail. "Big pharma" has been given the rights to market marijuana, while the plant itself remains criminal. The education system is failing hard, with machine shops, plubming and tech being replaced by dog grooming. A man with a law degree working at walmart is held in higher esteem than a plumber. The right of privacy has all but been eliminated...

...shit I could go for hours, but I'm tired.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. â€” That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
â€” That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

Patrick

Wed Oct 05 2011, 06:29AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

I dont think it will come to shooting/violence, but yes the feds are going to be turned on by the people, and wouldnT WAnt to be a fed empolyee on the day the people rise.

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