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Registered Member #3395
Joined: Thu Nov 04 2010, 08:42AM
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 193
Xray wrote ...
Józef C wrote ...
Hi there guys,
I was arcing with my ZVS driver and noticed that there was a lot of corona hissing noises and a small sparking noises going on. I looked on the underside of the two flybacks I tested separately and the pins started sparking to the core. Then, one time I turned it off, I got a nasty little zap from the wires on the switch.
Obviously, the whole circuit and batteries are 'floating' at an extremely dangerous voltage and is ungrounded. That's probably why the pins were arcing to the core so that the voltage could try and find a way to ground(via me unfortunately). I do not feel safe operating the ZVS until I can get some advice on this. Obviously, it needs to be grounded somehow. Jan Martis (Dr. Kilovolt) grounded his flyback cold and core to mains earth. However, the ZVS does not run off mains so how I can ground the circuit so that it is not 'floating' at a dangerous potential voltage?
Cheers, Jozef
I could be wrong, but based on your description, it sounds like you do not have the "low" terminal of the hv secondary grounded. In that configuration, the low terminal will arc to whatever it can find, as an attempt to ground itself. I think that it's a simple matter of making sure that your hv secondary "low" terminal is grounded to both the core of the transformer, and also the common or ground rail of the circuit (typically one terminal of your battery). You should NOT need to run wires to water pipes or anything crazy like that!
I have tried to ground the cold AND the core but it is bloody impossible to try and find a place to connect to the core. The clip just does not allow solder nor does the core. This is extremely frustrating. Is there any I can make a decent connection?
Registered Member #3429
Joined: Sun Nov 21 2010, 02:04AM
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 288
Don't worry about grounding the core if you cannot find a good spot to solder to, such as a screw or the clip that holds it together. The important terminal that must be grounded to the rest of your circuit is the low end of the hv secondary. Once you get that point grounded, then I believe that your shocking problem will vanish. Many other people have made battery operated ZVS driver circuits and did not experience the corona and arcing that you have.
Registered Member #3888
Joined: Sun May 15 2011, 09:50PM
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 649
If youre using a dc flyback, then there's a capacitor within in that is probably what's shocking you. use a better insulated switch and then touch the hv lead to ground after you turn it off to discharge the capacitor.
Registered Member #3395
Joined: Thu Nov 04 2010, 08:42AM
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 193
I am using a DC flyback but it does not have an internal cap because the arcs are normal. I do disharge the flyback after use as it's a habit but the reason why some DC flybacks hold charge even without a cap is because of the internal capacitance of many windings.
Registered Member #3395
Joined: Thu Nov 04 2010, 08:42AM
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 193
Xray wrote ...
Don't worry about grounding the core if you cannot find a good spot to solder to, such as a screw or the clip that holds it together. The important terminal that must be grounded to the rest of your circuit is the low end of the hv secondary. Once you get that point grounded, then I believe that your shocking problem will vanish. Many other people have made battery operated ZVS driver circuits and did not experience the corona and arcing that you have.
That's a relief! I can see how that would work, the HV low usually is the only pin that sparks to the core.
Registered Member #3395
Joined: Thu Nov 04 2010, 08:42AM
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 193
Right. You must explain this to me: I connected the flyback low to the negative end of the 48v SLA bank and two severely bad things happened: The high end of the flyback arced to my wooden table and ended up arcing to the inductor in the ZVS then I had to turn it off but then it zapped me multiple times. I had to cut the lead off from the SLAs at despair of not killing myself. Whether it's my error or yours, I am not happy operating this anymore until it is PROPERLY insulated. I was told by Xray to connect the HV low to the negative end of my SLAs and only exacerbated the problem.
Registered Member #3429
Joined: Sun Nov 21 2010, 02:04AM
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 288
It's very difficult to help you when other people, including me, do not know exactly how your project was wired, and what condition all the components are in. You really shouldn't blame any of us who try to help you because we are working blind. Since we cannot be there physically to hold your hand, the next best thing would be is if you could post all details of your project including an accurate schematic diagram, and closeup photos of the project including views of the component side of the circuit board, and of the solder side. There is obviously something going on that you are not explaining in enough detail that would help us to help you.
No one wants you to get shocked, and I'm sure that everyone here on 4hv wants to help you to create a successful project. But we cannot help you effectively if you cannot or will not provide DETAILS.
Registered Member #3904
Joined: Sat May 21 2011, 10:32AM
Location:
Posts: 28
I think when you grounded the output of your flyback, you will have ended up with the full 30kV+ above ground. When it was left floating the high side will have been above ground and the low side below ground. (I'm pretty new to all this, so please someone correct me if I'm wrong)
You'll get plenty of corona at +/- 15kV, but at +30kV it must have been pretty intense! I've killed a couple of flybacks with lower voltages than this. If you want to drive it this hard, you could try putting it under oil.
Registered Member #3429
Joined: Sun Nov 21 2010, 02:04AM
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 288
Józef C wrote ...
I connected the flyback low to the negative end of the 48v SLA bank and two severely bad things happened: The high end of the flyback arced to my wooden table and ended up arcing to the inductor in the ZVS then I had to turn it off but then it zapped me multiple times. Help please.
Well, I can only guess, since I cannot see what you've done up close. I suspect that the high end arced to your wooden table after connecting the ground is because you are now getting the FULL high voltage out of the transformer which you were not getting before. So, you assumed that something went wrong, when in actuality, it's working better than you had expected! You were getting zapped after you turned off power because of internal capacitor(s) in the flyback that held a charge. That's nothing unusual, and it's happened to me many times. That wire you added that you show in your schematic diagram is correct. If you do not ground the low end of the secondary winding, then that open terminal will arc to whatever is closest to it!
I think you need to educate yourself more about high voltage circuits (and I don't mean that as an insult). It sounds to me like you are a "newbie" and as such, you are bound to get shocked occasionally until you learn what you can touch and what you cannot touch!
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Dangerous ZVS Driver 'floating' at 30kV+ ungrounded - Safety advice please!
