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***ALTERNATIVE ENERGY THREAD***

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LAN_403

LD LANGER

Tue Sept 13 2011, 01:59PM

Registered Member #3824 Joined: Sun Apr 10 2011, 08:29PM
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 54

Hello, so I know everyone here has at least an opinion on this subject. I would like to see what the industry experienced members think of alternative energy and the forecast for the near future.

Within the next 5, 10, and 15 years, what do you think will become dominant in North America, Europe, and Australia?

One of the main issues plaguing alternative energy is the method of energy storage. What do you think will become dominant? New types of chemical batteries, flywheel storage, compressed air, water pumping, etc.

How about less known about methods, like plasma gasification and MSW energy?

Will micorgeneration become a major player, with the addition of hybrid and electric vehicles putting massive amounts of stress on the already stressed grid?

Any thoughts?

Regards,
Daniel

Thomas W

Tue Sept 13 2011, 02:59PM

Registered Member #3324 Joined: Sun Oct 17 2010, 06:57PM
Location:
Posts: 1276

farming geneticly modifyed bacteria to make hydrocarbon strings :D

Mads Barnkob

Tue Sept 13 2011, 04:39PM

Registered Member #1403 Joined: Tue Mar 18 2008, 06:05PM
Location: Denmark, Odense C
Posts: 1968

If something free will substitute something taxed, the free will get taxed too. This is the reality in Denmark and thus I do not foresee a boom, more will get it, but not a boom where the entire country is converted over such a short period as 15 years.

photovoltaric cells, solar water heating and heat pipes in the ground is most likely to be the choices within the next 15 years as they are developed and ready for purchase.

I have worked as an electrician for 7 years and have yet to touch something regarding alternative energy in my job.

Ash Small

Tue Sept 13 2011, 04:44PM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Personally, I think more money should be pumped into ITER.

Wind power and wave power will never produce a great deal of energy,

Any hydrocarbon power produces CO2.

Solar power won't work everywhere, and doesn't work anywhere at night.

Geothermal works in places like Iceland, and will certainly be used more in some places.

While there are still obstacles to be overcome with fusion power, it's the only viable alternative to nuclear fission, and we all know the problems associated with that.

Nicko

Tue Sept 13 2011, 04:54PM

Registered Member #1334 Joined: Tue Feb 19 2008, 04:37PM
Location: Nr. London, UK
Posts: 615

Ash Small wrote ...

Solar power won't work everywhere, and doesn't work anywhere at night.

Ground source heat pumps count as solar power, and they work just fine at night (at least ours has for the past 5+ years...)

Ash Small

Tue Sept 13 2011, 06:18PM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Nicko wrote ...

Ground source heat pumps count as solar power, and they work just fine at night (at least ours has for the past 5+ years...)

Yep, you got me there, but, while it will certainly become more widespread, it won't solve the energy crisis.

The only alternative energy source that can possibly replace hydrocarbon fuels and nuclear fuel is fusion.

I worked regularly repairing the first of the 'new generation' of incinerators in Europe, where the exhaust gases that came out of the chimney were cleaner than the surrounding air, thanks to the exhaust scrubber. That is something that will certainly become more widespread too. There has been a lot of talk about building a coal fired power station, at King's North, I think, using the same technology, but the general consensus is that it's not possible to scale the system up to that level. It's the same for all the other alternatives, except fusion, where the costs come down significantly as the power goes up, due to the nature of the system, and the way that the power scales with size.

JET doesn't break even. ITER will not be much bigger, but will produce something like 100 times the power. The proposed successor to ITER will, again not be much bigger, but will produce 100 times the power again. (I've not checked the figures, but that's the gist of it). No other form of alternative energy will scale in that manner, where doubling the size of the system reduces the cost of power produced by the same ratio.

GluD

Tue Sept 13 2011, 07:28PM

Registered Member #1221 Joined: Wed Jan 09 2008, 06:17PM
Location: Odense, Denmark
Posts: 196

It will be very exciting to see what sort of performance ITER will manage.
The main problem with fusion power I think is the public's fear of "atoms" and "nuclear" things. Im not convinced the public knows the diffrence from fission or fusion so expect panic (but that didnt stop fission so maybe it wont stop fusion).

Things like windmills and solar power are far too periodic to rely on for power generation. That seems to be neglected in much of the debates I have seen. Not to mention the seemingly required re-wiring of the grids.
Also any sort of storage will have losses, the more times you change the 'form' of the energy the more you lose.

Of course willmills and solar power are fine for the home where you can just switch over to the 115v or 230v line when the wind doesnt blow and the sun doesnt shine.
So it is probably correct that more people will invest in such devices for their homes in the future.

ShawnLG

Tue Sept 13 2011, 07:57PM

Registered Member #286 Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 04:52AM
Location:
Posts: 399

There is nothing that can replace the HUGE amount of energy we use from fossel fuels. The only way we can transfer to another energy source is to drastically cut back on our energy use. We would need to be driving around smaller light weight 10hp vehicals instead of 300hp 2 ton tin cans. Unfortunately, our govenment is doing very little about the energy crysis.

The most promising renewable power generation I belive would be from solar tower plants. They heat molten salts that store energy for when the sun is not shining, they can generate electricity for 24 hours a day. These plants are cheaper than solar cells. No nuclear or other toxic waste.

Bjørn

Tue Sept 13 2011, 08:01PM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

Solar power won't work everywhere, and doesn't work anywhere at night.

Here is a picture of the midnight sun to obliterate the rest of your argument.

Seeing that the worlds combined supply of experts are unable to figure out what a nuclear reactor would do when external power is cut off I have absolutely zero confidence in any claims from that camp. In the chat room the most accurate predictions were made by Conundrum, if that does not send a chill down your spine you are not human at all.

...

Tue Sept 13 2011, 09:20PM

Registered Member #56 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445

I am fairly sure it ultimately will come down to solar power, but I am not convinced exactly what type. I work making triple junction solar cells, so I really hope that concentrated photovoltaics (CPV) wins out. In the short term they will only be used in conjunction with existing power plants, such that they will work during they day to run industrial loads/cooling/etc and existing power plants will pick up the slack at night to run lighting etc. Ultimately things like the super grid could solve the daytime issue (if the Americas trade power with Eurasia) but I suspect that something else will end up filling in the gap-super capacitors are starting to become plausible, heating large vats of molten metal, pumping water into dams, nuclear even. But natural gas/coal fired plants are not going away any time soon so it is hard to speculate what technology will be available when they finally stop being profitable.

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