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Registered Member #543
Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Xray wrote ...
ChrisR wrote ...
Hi guys, I'm new to this site and have an interest in reading about high voltage stuff. Still quite an amateur.
I'm very concerned about what I'm reading here. You are an amateur who has a 140KV X-ray transformer sitting in your garage, and you want to do something "fun" with it?!!!
You also stated, "Also, there doesn't seem to be much data on Google on this model, is there a way to figure out which frequency to drive this thing at?" Um, the sticker on the transformer indicates that it operates at 50/60 Hz, and you didn't know what that means?!!!
Chris -- I think you might seriously injur or kill yourself by playing with a very dangerous electrical device. You obviously have very little understanding of electronics and electrical components, and therefore you really should think twice about "playing" with an X-ray transformer. I see no one else admonished you about the dangers of high voltage, so I thought I'd better chime in and hopefully dissuade you from energizing that transformer until you gain a lot more knowledge and experience with high voltage electricity and components.
If you are bored, then read a good book about high voltage or electronics in general, but PLEASE don't play with that transformer!
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
As dangerous as HV is weve all been shocked, and I dont want to discourage him from learning the ways of HV. But perhaps he should start with a good old fashioned Iggy, those arnt harmless, but certainly less dangerous than an XRT, or MOT.
If your going to make a mistake an iggy is less lethal (note: I said less lethal, not "safe") than most other HV transformers.
Remember electric shock treatments are considered to be torturous by any clear thinking person, but also very effective at influencing the psychology of decision making. He needs to learn his lessons (like we all have), but not get killed in doing so.
Registered Member #1521
Joined: Thu Jun 05 2008, 10:46AM
Location: Hungary
Posts: 128
A friend sent me a schematic of a similar transformer, so I measured a few things. Schematic The primary of the transformer is likely the outputs 50 and 60, it has very low resistance, 0,7ohm, or lower. I thought the primary is damaged, then I tried it with my variac, at 20V the current was only 150mA. I placed a little spark gap between the poles, and ground, but nothing happened on the 2 sides. This transformer is pretty new (made in the end of the 80s), so the rectifiers are some kind of semiconductors (as there are no outputs for tube rectifier heating). I don't understand what is the true condition of it, but if there are some shorted winding (or rectifier), the current should be much higher. Any ideas? Looks like I must check it from inside.
Registered Member #3429
Joined: Sun Nov 21 2010, 02:04AM
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 288
omegalabs wrote ...
A friend sent me a schematic of a similar transformer, so I measured a few things. Schematic The primary of the transformer is likely the outputs 50 and 60, it has very low resistance, 0,7ohm, or lower. I thought the primary is damaged, then I tried it with my variac, at 20V the current was only 150mA. I placed a little spark gap between the poles, and ground, but nothing happened on the 2 sides. This transformer is pretty new (made in the end of the 80s), so the rectifiers are some kind of semiconductors (as there are no outputs for tube rectifier heating). I don't understand what is the true condition of it, but if there are some shorted winding (or rectifier), the current should be much higher. Any ideas? Looks like I must check it from inside.
I'm not sure about the function of transformer NT1 in the shcematic, but NT2 and NT3 are definitely low-voltage filament transformers, used to power the filaments of the rectifier tubes. You can get some idea as to the general voltage output of NT1 by looking at the size of the insulator on the external terminal. If it is short (for example 1/2 inch to 1 inch long) then it produces relatively low voltage. But if it is very long (say, 3 to 6 inches) then it produces very high voltage. That's about all I can tell you about it at this point.
EDIT: After looking at your schematic again, I realized that tubes Q1 and Q2 may be X-ray tubes. I came to that conclusion because of the angled anodes in the tube symbols. There is another diode type tube located within the transformer housing, labeled NV1, and that may be a standard hv rectifier (but not sure).
EDIT (again!) - I should have studied the schematic in more detail before rushing to make a comment on it! But now I beleive that NT1 is the hv transformer that powers the X-ray tubes. The terminal labeled 800 is on the "low" end of the hv transformer secondary winding and is used to monitor the tube current. The hv end of the winding is connected to one leg of one X-ray tube filament, and the anodes of both tubes are grounded. This makes sense now. But the purpose of NV1 eludes me. It looks as though it is in series with the second X-ray tube. So, the hv has to flow through NV1 before it gets to the filament leg. I haven't yet figured out what that tube is used for. It's rectifying the hv ac, but that's not necessary because the X-ray tube will self-rectify. Maybe someone else has any ideas about this.
Registered Member #1521
Joined: Thu Jun 05 2008, 10:46AM
Location: Hungary
Posts: 128
Xray wrote ...
I'm not sure about the function of transformer NT1 in the shcematic, but NT2 and NT3 are definitely low-voltage filament transformers, used to power the filaments of the rectifier tubes. You can get some idea as to the general voltage output of NT1 by looking at the size of the insulator on the external terminal. If it is short (for example 1/2 inch to 1 inch long) then it produces relatively low voltage. But if it is very long (say, 3 to 6 inches) then it produces very high voltage. That's about all I can tell you about it at this point.
EDIT: After looking at your schematic again, I realized that tubes Q1 and Q2 may be X-ray tubes. I came to that conclusion because of the angled anodes in the tube symbols. There is another diode type tube located within the transformer housing, labeled NV1, and that may be a standard hv rectifier (but now sure).
Yes, NT2 and NT3 are the filament transformers of the X-ray tubes. You can see on the pictures, the connectors are in approximately 10cm (4inch) deep, in a ceramic tube (which was lubricated with some grease, when it was used at normal operation, prevent the corona, and sparks to the ground flange). Actually this schematic is not exaclty for this transformer, but a similar one, so it's possible, that my transformer has completely different stuff inside. There is one more thing, NK1 and NK2 are HV relays, which can change between the two workstations, and if there are no control, they don't connect the HV to any output connectors, this is why I didn't had any sign of power outside.
Edit: Yes, NT1 is the HV transformer. The measuring can be the connector 800, and that bakelite socket connector, which are not in the schematic, only on the top of the transfomer. The NV1 tube is a mystery for me too, but this schematic is not necessary equals to the thansformer's real inside.
Registered Member #543
Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Xray wrote ...
omegalabs wrote ...
A friend sent me a schematic of a similar transformer, so I measured a few things. Schematic The primary of the transformer is likely the outputs 50 and 60, it has very low resistance, 0,7ohm, or lower. I thought the primary is damaged, then I tried it with my variac, at 20V the current was only 150mA. I placed a little spark gap between the poles, and ground, but nothing happened on the 2 sides. This transformer is pretty new (made in the end of the 80s), so the rectifiers are some kind of semiconductors (as there are no outputs for tube rectifier heating). I don't understand what is the true condition of it, but if there are some shorted winding (or rectifier), the current should be much higher. Any ideas? Looks like I must check it from inside.
I'm not sure about the function of transformer NT1 in the shcematic, but NT2 and NT3 are definitely low-voltage filament transformers, used to power the filaments of the rectifier tubes. You can get some idea as to the general voltage output of NT1 by looking at the size of the insulator on the external terminal. If it is short (for example 1/2 inch to 1 inch long) then it produces relatively low voltage. But if it is very long (say, 3 to 6 inches) then it produces very high voltage. That's about all I can tell you about it at this point.
EDIT: After looking at your schematic again, I realized that tubes Q1 and Q2 may be X-ray tubes. I came to that conclusion because of the angled anodes in the tube symbols. There is another diode type tube located within the transformer housing, labeled NV1, and that may be a standard hv rectifier (but not sure).
EDIT (again!) - I should have studied the schematic in more detail before rushing to make a comment on it! But now I beleive that NT1 is the hv transformer that powers the X-ray tubes. The terminal labeled 800 is on the "low" end of the hv transformer secondary winding and is used to monitor the tube current. The hv end of the winding is connected to one leg of one X-ray tube filament, and the anodes of both tubes are grounded. This makes sense now. But the purpose of NV1 eludes me. It looks as though it is in series with the second X-ray tube. So, the hv has to flow through NV1 before it gets to the filament leg. I haven't yet figured out what that tube is used for. It's rectifying the hv ac, but that's not necessary because the X-ray tube will self-rectify. Maybe someone else has any ideas about this.
This circuit is designed with options of using either DC X-ray tubes Q1, or the older legacy AC type Q2, both types in grounded anode mode only.
NT1 is a measurement transformer.
NT2 and NT3 are the filament supplies of Q1 and Q2 respectively.
Kenotron NV1 rectifies the HV AC supply from point 802 which enters the circuit via isolation capacitor NC1, and supplies unsmoothed half-wave HV negative DC to Q1.
Registered Member #2893
Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242
So I decided to make an XRT ladder today in response to this thread. *Much* more awesome than an NST ladder, even though it was a bit too windy for the arc in this video...
I want to get my paws on one of those. Or a MOT. All I have is a pretty weak NST that isn't enough to drive failcoil, so I will also make a Jacobs ladder since those are easy as shit and NSTs are hard to short out.
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140KV Xray Transformer
