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Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
I think this rossi guy is feeding AC or AC+DC over that clamp-on AC meter or something, A resistive shunt should have been used for recording input power. perhaps a water diversion trick...anyway now rossi is making wild claims about the energy densityavailble for conversion.... im trying to find that phyics article, will post if i can find it.
Registered Member #543
Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Nicko wrote ...
Hmmmm. Delay in selling units...
Even without the "self-destruct" capability, Rossi could never have got his box of tricks passed through the CE safety self-certification scheme, which will mean he will have to send dozens of his devices to approved CE safety testing contractors where they will remain for years, and all at Mr Rossi's very considerable expense. So he won't be selling the device in Europe.
I am dismayed to see someone debase themselves so much, and wonder how much further he could have to fall.
Registered Member #1792
Joined: Fri Oct 31 2008, 08:12PM
Location: University of California
Posts: 527
Nicko wrote ...
Hmmmm. Delay in selling units...
To quote a bit from this article:
wrote ... From reading Andrea Rossi's comments, it seems the technology will not be released for use by individuals (use in homes) any time soon, unless the patents involved are granted. It is an absolute tragedy that due to the delays of the U.S. Patent Office (and their policy of not granting patents to "cold fusion" processes), the E-Cat may only see use in industrial settings for some time to come.
It is very possible that there will be lives lost due to this delay, and much unnecessary human suffering. The world is in economic collapse, and many people around the world could benefit from a cheap device that could economically power their home or small business. An E-Cat device could provide the energy needed to economically pump water from wells in drought stricken areas, be used as a brute force method of water desalinization, provide an alternative to high cost heating oil in frigid areas, and help countless individuals that live in poverty make ends meet. ... If the U.S. Patent Office does not grant these patents, there will be blood on their hands. They will be literally taking clean water out of the mouths of infants, stealing food off the plates of children, slapping poverty stricken people in the face, and contributing to the financial decline of the world.
Oh the humanity! </sarcasm> This article only takes credibility away from Rossi with its inflammatory childish writing, though of course it's not fair to judge Rossi based on a third party's opinion.
If they actually have something then the industrial applications where they can control their IP should be appearing in the coming years, it is common for start up companies to first target specific high-value customers rather than the general public. If they don't have anything then more delays will surface. Based on the article Stella recently posted in General Chat and their esoteric method of measuring energy output I'm not exactly holding my breath.
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Mattski wrote ...
Nicko wrote ...
Hmmmm. Delay in selling units...
To quote a bit from this article:
wrote ... From reading Andrea Rossi's comments, it seems the technology will not be released for use by individuals (use in homes) any time soon, unless the patents involved are granted. It is an absolute tragedy that due to the delays of the U.S. Patent Office (and their policy of not granting patents to "cold fusion" processes), the E-Cat may only see use in industrial settings for some time to come.
It is very possible that there will be lives lost due to this delay, and much unnecessary human suffering. The world is in economic collapse, and many people around the world could benefit from a cheap device that could economically power their home or small business. An E-Cat device could provide the energy needed to economically pump water from wells in drought stricken areas, be used as a brute force method of water desalinization, provide an alternative to high cost heating oil in frigid areas, and help countless individuals that live in poverty make ends meet. ... If the U.S. Patent Office does not grant these patents, there will be blood on their hands. They will be literally taking clean water out of the mouths of infants, stealing food off the plates of children, slapping poverty stricken people in the face, and contributing to the financial decline of the world.
Oh the humanity! </sarcasm> This article only takes credibility away from Rossi with its inflammatory childish writing, though of course it's not fair to judge Rossi based on a third party's opinion.
If they actually have something then the industrial applications where they can control their IP should be appearing in the coming years, it is common for start up companies to first target specific high-value customers rather than the general public. If they don't have anything then more delays will surface. Based on the article Stella recently posted in General Chat and their esoteric method of measuring energy output I'm not exactly holding my breath.
If Rossi was that concerned about human suffering he'd release the technology anyway, without a patent.
My guess is he's planning to get rich by publishing a book about how the 'powers that be' prevented him from releasing this 'unproven' technology. (the usual 'conspiracy theory' stuff.)
Registered Member #543
Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Simple fraud alone does not explain the involvement of a number of senior academics in this business.
I have followed LENR research for some years, and am in no doubt that in some cases small but perfectly genuine anomalies have been observed. The natural world is full of phenomena which seem to fly in the face of our expectations. Who would have anticipated the negative thermal expansion of water below 4 °C?
Academics now find themselves pushed ever harder to discover something with commercial applications, and someone like Rossi appears and makes a sales pitch out of all their conditional language - all the mights and possiblies are translated into robust marketing language, and the ubiquitous line at the bottom of every journal paper "further research required" is crossed out.
Once on board, the professors find it hard to abandon ship without abandoning their ability to attract further research grants, the very stuff of which tenure is made.
Registered Member #1321
Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843
After seeing all those people in the video, it doesn't seem plausible to me that they're all either "incompetent", or part of a massive fraud. They just don't come across that way.
If it's real (and frankly it's looking more and more real to me) I can understand Rossi's apprehension.
What I would expect to happen, though, at some point, is that some government (or group of governments) would offer to buy him out and put the technology in the public domain.
Assuming it's real, based upon what's already known, nickel nano powder + hydrogen + catalyst, some resourceful government somewhere willing to spend some money may be able to duplicate it, just using a trial and error approach to find the "catalyst" (or even a different/better "catalyst" for that matter).
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
jpsmith123 wrote ...
. Assuming it's real, based upon what's already known, nickel nano powder + hydrogen + catalyst, some resourceful government somewhere willing to spend some money may be able to duplicate it, just using a trial and error approach to find the "catalyst" (or even a different/better "catalyst" for that matter).
Nichel nano powder + hydrogen + catalyst sounds pretty similar to conventional hydrogen fuel cells.
While I've not read everything that is available on this subject, it does appear that this is pretty much all we know about it.
I'm currently of the 'opinion' that, while this may indeed be some kind of 'new' fuel cell, it is probably based on existing fuel cell technology, and will therefore not live up to all the claims made by Rossi, etc.
Registered Member #543
Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
jpsmith123 wrote ...
Assuming it's real, based upon what's already known, nickel nano powder* + hydrogen + catalyst, some resourceful government somewhere willing to spend some money may be able to duplicate it, just using a trial and error approach to find the "catalyst" (or even a different/better "catalyst" for that matter).
There is a good deal of LENR open source literature on anomalies apparently associated with hydrogen loading of various metals, including Pd, Ti, U, and here, as in Rossi's case, Ni:
E. Campari, S. Focardi, V. Gabbani, V. Montalbano, F. Piantelli, S. Veronesi Surface Analysis of hydrogen loaded nickel alloys
* Added afterthought: Raney nickel - a spongiform catalyst - has long been well known in industrial organic synthesis.
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Anybody following this "energy catalyzer" invention thing?
