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Registered Member #1321
Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843
You're serious? You actually take "the government's" "story" at face value?
The most controversial, sought-after, alleged "terrorist Mastermind" of all time, the subject of endless speculation, is allegedly killed, but there's no third party confirmation of his identity? Apparently no independent examination of the body? No UN involvement? No nuthin', except just a "quick burial at sea" by parties which would have a strong motive to lie about the whole thing?
And then, even though Obama makes the announcement late on a Sunday night, somehow crowds of revelers show up in front of the White House and at "Ground Zero", and everybody has a little American flag to wave around?
And of course then there's the other "coincidence" - the fact that Mike Rivero's whatreallyhappened.com web site was the victim of a massive DOS attack that apparently happend just *before* Obama made the announcement.
This whole amateurish psyop would almost be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
Edit:
And in yet another apparent "coincidence", the compound where the the killing supposedly occured has burnt to the ground. Unfortunately making it impossible to conduct any kind of independent forensic examination of the scene.
... not Russel! Registered Member #1
Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052
We get it, jpsmith123, you don't buy it. You've had your chance to speak your piece. Let's let everyone else have their turn without being rebuffed by you.
Registered Member #1321
Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843
Well I'm sorry if I've offended anyone. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, certainly.
It would be refreshing, though, if those having a different opinion would support it with some kind of cogent argument, rather than just say what the commentators at Fox "news" would say about it.
Believe me, I would like more than anything else to be proven wrong about this.
Lastly, I wouldn't even have said what I have said so far, but for my belief that the political machinations going on right now pose the most serious risk to humanity that the world has ever known.
Registered Member #96
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062
I don't believe Obama would lie about something this important, the stakes are far too high.
For that matter, I also believe that 9/11 conspiracy theories do not belong on 4HV; to even discuss them here demonstrates a fundamental lack of respect for those who died.
Not least the vast majority of the security measures brought in over in the UK etc are sensible, measured and in no way excessive.
So what if you can't get some chemicals any more, if you want PCB etchant then go and buy it from a reputable retailer. If the price of one less terrorist attack on the UK is a little inconvenience or having to wait a week for your PCB then so be it.
Registered Member #3610
Joined: Thu Jan 13 2011, 03:29AM
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 506
Oh look, it took what, a couple of hours for jpsmith to start the government bashing. I'll offer a complimentary tinfoil hat to take the discussion over to one of the many conspiracy nutjob forums that are a more appropriate place for it.
Conspiracy theories in general are pretty far fetched, and impossible to kill. You can provide mountains of evidence to the contrary, and conspiracy theorists will still insist that everyone is blind, and that clearly whatever happened could not have a simple logical solution, but that in fact some impossibly complex series of events were pulled off without a hitch.
If "the government" actually managed to pull off a fraction of the conspiracies people come up with, it would be the most amazing feat they ever accomplished.
... not Russel! Registered Member #1
Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052
James wrote ...
Conspiracy theories in general are pretty far fetched, and impossible to kill. You can provide mountains of evidence to the contrary, and conspiracy theorists will still insist that everyone is blind, and that clearly whatever happened could not have a simple logical solution, but that in fact some impossibly complex series of events were pulled off without a hitch.
Certainly you'd agree, though, that people of the opposite variety exist: those who will take the authorities at their word no matter what, despite whatever evidence of corruption/wrongdoing may surface. Irrational devotion to predetermined conclusions isn't exclusive to conspiracy theorists.
In any case, let's not get off-track or insulting here. I've asked jpsmith123 to check his posts in order to let others express themselves, and he has agreed to do so. Bashing him now will only compel him to defend himself, thus turning the thread into a flamewar.
Registered Member #1321
Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843
So, rather than address any of the issues I mentioned (which would give pause to any reasonable person), you're going to go all ad hominem on me, new guy? You're going to start with the "nutjob" innuendo and the tin foil hat epithet again "James"?
Well, despite your inane, pejorative reply, I'm going to be polite.
Apparently you're not very familiar with what a "conspiracy theory" actually is. According to the dictionary, a conspiracy theory is "a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group."
Under that definition, the government's position as to what happened on 09/11/2001 is also a "conspiracy theory". So what we have here are actually two opposing "conspiracy theories", and the issue is: which theory is best supported by the facts. And the government has yet to produce any evidence implicating Osama bin Laden for 9/11.
Edit:
Sorry Chris, I don't mean to start a flame war. I wasn't going to even respond but he attacked me personally, as he's done before.
Registered Member #3610
Joined: Thu Jan 13 2011, 03:29AM
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 506
Chris Russell wrote ...
Certainly you'd agree, though, that people of the opposite variety exist: those who will take the authorities at their word no matter what, despite whatever evidence of corruption/wrongdoing may surface. Irrational devotion to predetermined conclusions isn't exclusive to conspiracy theorists.
In any case, let's not get off-track or insulting here. I've asked jpsmith123 to check his posts in order to let others express themselves, and he has agreed to do so. Bashing him now will only compel him to defend himself, thus turning the thread into a flamewar.
I don't automatically take everything the authorities say at face value, but I don't automatically jump to the conclusion that they are full of crap either. They are humans like the rest of us, there is some BS, some truth, and a lot of middle ground in all of it. Miscommunications, misunderstanding, mistakes, lack of complete information and assumptions along the way occur; not everything that turns out to be incorrect was the result of a blatant lie. Corruption in all levels of society always has and always will exist, that doesn't mean that all of government and society in general is corrupt. We have an imperfect system, full of compromises, but it does an ok job all things considered. Occasionally the results of an investigation may prove to be incorrect or missing details, but occasionally what is reported may well be exactly what happened. Sometimes even in the best of circumstances, all we can do is speculate since none of us was actually there when the events unfolded, so why lose any sleep over it?
In this case who cares? Osama is dead, I have little doubt of that. The precise details are of little importance in our day to day lives. Whether he died yesterday, last week, last month, or last year makes hardly a difference. We can all come together and breath a collective sigh of relief that he's gone, but really I believe little will change in the long run. Terrorism will continue to be a threat, al quaida and related groups continue to operate, we are still mired in various conflicts around the world and bankrupted at home. Our political field has become a media circus reminiscent of the Jerry Springer show with everyone too busy bickering over silly wedge issues to get anything done. In the end though, the sun still rises every morning and life goes on, just as it has every day before.
Registered Member #1403
Joined: Tue Mar 18 2008, 06:05PM
Location: Denmark, Odense C
Posts: 1968
Going in for a specific kill mission instead of a capture mission shows the same amount of human mercy from both sides.
But the alternative to take bin Laden to court without any substantial evidence, other than he said he did it... so does a lot of other people striving for attention, poses that to kill him is the best solution in pleasing the masses.
Registered Member #3781
Joined: Sat Mar 26 2011, 02:25AM
Location:
Posts: 701
Yeah I don't understand what the hype is all about. I don't think anything has really changed except that he payed for his crimes. It's not like we stopped terrorism. EDIT: does anyone know what Obama's plans are now? My mom says he is going to wage war on Libya haha but I doubt that
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Osama bin Ladin is Dead!!!!!!!!!!!
