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CFLs could cause cancer and worsen eye problems

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LAN_403

Conundrum

Thu Apr 21 2011, 08:36AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

Yup, it looks like the EU's insistence we replace perfectly good incandescents with nasty failure prone and TOXIC CFLs is going to lead to an epidemic of eye problems, migraines, and other serious health issues.

Having had several bulbs fail on me in one case nearly catching fire because the plastic got so hot, I can see this being a major problem in years to come.
Styrene and other toxics in the PCBs, not to mention fire retardants which are known carcinogens.

It looks like the main cause of the toxic emissions is the plastics used, which get hot and outgas for months if not years.

Not least the spectrum of light from these contains significant UV because there are often gaps in the phosphor where the coating process was inefficient.

Unfortunately it looks like the biggest problem is the "budget" CFLs which people buy rather than the Â£6 or so well made ones.
Often they will remove safety components such as thermal fuses and replace with wire links to save money, resulting in CFLs which run for a few months or years then fail spectacularly.
Same problem with overheating, the cheap CFLs have no mechanism for controlling current through the tube so it runs hot all the time which worsens any problems with outgassing from the hot PCB and casing.

In the olden days CFLs resembled a normal tube fitting with an iron cored ballast so they tended to be reliable and run for several years with no problem.
The reason they changed to electronics was the weight, bulk and expense of the iron core made using them in some fitting a pain.

Discuss.
-A

dmg

Thu Apr 21 2011, 11:59AM

Registered Member #2628 Joined: Fri Jan 15 2010, 12:23AM
Location:
Posts: 627

Thats exactly why I use a pair of 4' T-12s in my room with an iron ballast (So I guess I cant call it a CLF.. just a fluorecent fixture). its been there for almost 5 years now and still running.

I might replace it to LED soon however. (offcourse DIY!)

Erlend^SE

Thu Apr 21 2011, 12:58PM

Registered Member #1565 Joined: Wed Jun 25 2008, 09:08PM
Location: Norway
Posts: 159

Yep, that's why I rather see fixtures use 4 pins CFL's;
since then the electronics are not integrated into the fixture, and that way they can have proper quality electronics (if the fixture is not too cheap).

To put all inside a blob with a 2 pole Edison socket was good for filament bulbs, but for FL tubes I would not really expect the same form-factor.

I don't quite get it: why not make the CFL in 2 parts, a electronics section you screw into the socket, and a tube section you plug into the electronics section.

Anyway I mostly wait for it all to be replaced by LED modules that replace the lamp socket.

Killa-X

Thu Apr 21 2011, 02:34PM

Registered Member #1643 Joined: Mon Aug 18 2008, 06:10PM
Location:
Posts: 1039

Yep. I noted the plastic on all 7 in my room is brown around the glass tube. I had one die awhile back, I noted a smell which reminded me of hot glue, or just hot electronics in general. The bulb flicked off then on like every 10 seconds. I thought I was just going insane. Then the bulb went fully out. Day later I removed the dead bulb and yup, didn't work

I have not yet taken it apart. I want to so I can inspect the insides, look for any burn marks, maybe possible capacitors that are bloated, and so forth. I'll post pics if I see anything worth showing when I'm home tonight.

James

Thu Apr 21 2011, 05:22PM

Registered Member #3610 Joined: Thu Jan 13 2011, 03:29AM
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 506

The plastic darkens from a mixture of UV and the heat from the electrodes as they reach end of life and the efficiency drops, causing a lot more heat until often the stem seal cracks letting air into the tube and quenching the arc.

There are multiple reasons they changed to electronic ballasts over iron. Reduced cost and weight are one aspect, as is the reduced size allowing them to fit in more fixture but you also get improved performance and efficiency. There is no nasty 50/60Hz flicker, they can start instantly and down to much colder temperatures. Better regulation over a range of line voltage.

I've been using CFLs almost exclusively in my home for the last 10 years and while some have looked really crispy, not a single one has ever caught fire. The flame retardants in that stuff work pretty well, try to light an old one on fire and you'll see. "Almost" catching fire doesn't really mean anything. How do you know it almost caught fire? Has there ever been a report of one actually catching fire? Maybe there has, but I have yet to see it.

As for toxicity, I can't speak for the rest of the world but in the US a large portion of our electricity comes from burning coal. The energy consumed by an incandescent lamp releases more mercury and other toxic substances into the atmosphere than is contained in a CFL.

I do like linear fluorescents where I have space for them though. I use T8 with efficient electronic ballasts in my kitchen, garage and laundry room, but the CFLs everywhere else work just fine. In the outdoor fixtures that run dusk till dawn I usually get around 8000 hours out of them. Frequent starts tend to wear them out a lot more quickly.

hsieh

Fri Apr 22 2011, 03:11PM

Registered Member #1412 Joined: Thu Mar 27 2008, 04:07PM
Location: Taipei Taiwan
Posts: 278

Fluorescent lamps and CLF are already very popular here in Taiwan.fluorescent lamps has been popular for many decades here.

Sometimes I read that fluorescent lamps are not very popular in America and Europe and many people still use incandescent lamps.Is this true?

klugesmith

Fri Apr 22 2011, 05:24PM

Registered Member #2099 Joined: Wed Apr 29 2009, 12:22AM
Location: Los Altos, California
Posts: 1716

Erlend^SE wrote ...

Yep, that's why I rather see fixtures use 4 pins CFL's;
since then the electronics are not integrated into the fixture, and that way they can have proper quality electronics (if the fixture is not too cheap).

To put all inside a blob with a 2 pole Edison socket was good for filament bulbs, but for FL tubes I would not really expect the same form-factor.

I don't quite get it: why not make the CFL in 2 parts, a electronics section you screw into the socket, and a tube section you plug into the electronics section.

Anyway I mostly wait for it all to be replaced by LED modules that replace the lamp socket.

Unfortunately, we've seen free-market-driven evolution rather than intelligent design.
Standard 4-pin CFL's have never caught on in the US market (I remember then 30 years ago). Consumers wouldn't buy a bulb that didn't fit the existing fixture. Builders wouldn't install a fixture that needed an unfamiliar, expensive bulb.
The medium-screw-base CFLs with integrated ballast also didn't catch on, cause they were too long to fit within most existing luminaires. Until a) development of twisted tubes, so the whole unit fits anywhere you can put an A19 Medium Base lamp, and b) green mandates & financial incentives.

I wonder how the toxics picture will change when LED's take over general illumination?
Ever compare their arsenic content to the mercury content of CFLs, in terms of toxicity?
LED's produce about as much heat per lumen as CFLs, so when they reach the same stage
of cost reduction, they will probably be smaller and their plastic parts hotter.

Yet another case where I believe the people would benefit from government regulation.
Free-market forces are better than nothing. For example, lamps and fixtures are subject to
electrical safety codes developed by fire-protection associations (with help from the
lamp and fixture industry).

James

Fri Apr 22 2011, 06:29PM

Registered Member #3610 Joined: Thu Jan 13 2011, 03:29AM
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 506

I still prefer the standard medium screw base sockets for the versatility provided. Incandescent, CFL and LED are all readily available to fit it. Electricity in the US is quite cheap, it varies by region but I pay about $0.08/kWh.

There have been movements to ban the sale of incandescent lamps. Personally I would rather tax less efficient lamps and use that to subsidize more efficient lamps. That way you could still buy standard incandescents for applications where they are better suited. I'm sure a portion of the population would hysterically scream "socialism" though as that seems to be the popular buzzword for anything they don't like.

LED is promising, but there is a lot of junk LED stuff out there that doesn't come close to rated specs for light output or lifespan. Good stuff is available but it's still prohibitively expensive. I don't think many people will pay $30-$60 for a single light bulb when a $3 CFL works nearly as well. I think LED will eventually come out on top if the low quality junk doesn't spoil the reputation.

Bored Chemist

Fri Apr 22 2011, 07:03PM

Registered Member #193 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 07:04AM
Location: sheffield
Posts: 1022

"Styrene and other toxics in the PCBs, not to mention fire retardants which are known carcinogens."
Best to throw out your computer too.

3l3ctrici7y

Sat Apr 23 2011, 03:59AM

Registered Member #1806 Joined: Sun Nov 09 2008, 04:58AM
Location: USA
Posts: 136

Toxins that stay put or are otherwise well sequestered are less of an issue as compared to those that are released slowly as the device is used, or released all at once at end-of-life or if the device is subjected to excessive mechanical stress.

I don't consider the well sequestered solid arsenic in LEDs to be as concerning as the barely contained mercury gas in CFLs. That is another point; gas vs solid. A solid is more likely to stay put, no matter what, than something that is a gas that can and will diffuse into the air you breathe if the containment is ruptured.

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