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Dr. Dark Current
Fri Apr 08 2011, 12:19PM Print
Dr. Dark Current Registered Member #152 Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 03:36PM
Location: Czech Rep.
Posts: 3384
I thought it could be a voltage regulator or just a plain neon glow lamp, but when I connect it through a 33k resistor to 230V 50Hz mains, the spiral glows only on two spots.
1302265176 152 FT0 P127
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Wolfram
Fri Apr 08 2011, 12:32PM
Wolfram Registered Member #33 Joined: Sat Feb 04 2006, 01:31PM
Location: Norway
Posts: 971
It looks like a neon voltage stabilizer Link2

It might only glow on two spots because of cathode contamination or something similar.
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Proud Mary
Fri Apr 08 2011, 01:16PM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
It looks very similar to the Philips Miniwatt 4687 neon voltage stabiliser as Anders said.

Your 33kΩ resistor is starving the discharge. For operation on a 230V supply, the dropping resistor should be between 14kΩ and 3.5kΩ (for the 10mA - 40mA datasheet figures)


1302268394 543 FT0 Philips Miniwatt 4687


The original 1936 Philips datasheet is here: Link2

This slightly later datasheet of 1948 cautions that the tube may not start properly in complete darkness: Link2
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Dr. Dark Current
Fri Apr 08 2011, 02:48PM
Dr. Dark Current Registered Member #152 Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 03:36PM
Location: Czech Rep.
Posts: 3384
Here's a photo of it operating in series with a 5K1 resistor, I think this is not the way it should light up... I'm afraid the tube was damaged in some way.

1302274092 152 FT112762 P128
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Proud Mary
Fri Apr 08 2011, 03:15PM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Is the voltage across the tube between 90 - 110V?

What is the current through the device?

IN normal DC operation, the glow envelopes the cathode, and I am not sure how it should look with AC across it.
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klugesmith
Fri Apr 08 2011, 07:00PM
klugesmith Registered Member #2099 Joined: Wed Apr 29 2009, 12:22AM
Location: Los Altos, California
Posts: 1716
Nice find.

I think you're seeing the result of cathode contamination,
from sputtered material after many hours of operation.
The Neonixie group (including our Nicko) have experts
in how to un-do the problem using harsh electrical treatments.

The neonixie club last year abandoned their Yahoo group and, I think, set up a forum on Google.
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Adam Munich
Fri Apr 08 2011, 08:15PM
Adam Munich Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242
Dr. Kilovolt wrote ...

Here's a photo of it operating in series with a 5K1 resistor, I think this is not the way it should light up... I'm afraid the tube was damaged in some way.

1302274092 152 FT112762 P128


When a new neon lamp is made it doesn't glow completely because of impurities in the gas fill. After a while these impurites embed themselves in the glass and things glow evenly. If the lamp has not been run for decades these impurites find their way out of the glass and mess up the glow once more.

Just let it "burn in" for a while.
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Steve Conner
Fri Apr 08 2011, 08:57PM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
Are you running it off DC of the correct polarity? The discharge will look wrong if you have the wrong polarity, or AC.
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Wolfram
Fri Apr 08 2011, 09:08PM
Wolfram Registered Member #33 Joined: Sat Feb 04 2006, 01:31PM
Location: Norway
Posts: 971
Dr. Kilovolt wrote ...

Here's a photo of it operating in series with a 5K1 resistor, I think this is not the way it should light up... I'm afraid the tube was damaged in some way.

1302274092 152 FT112762 P128


In this picture, I can see "4687" written on the tube, so it's the exact same one as the one on the site I linked to in my first post.

Here's some info on cathode poisoning in nixies Link2
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Proud Mary
Fri Apr 08 2011, 09:36PM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Anders M. wrote ...

Dr. Kilovolt wrote ...

Here's a photo of it operating in series with a 5K1 resistor, I think this is not the way it should light up... I'm afraid the tube was damaged in some way.

1302274092 152 FT112762 P128


In this picture, I can see "4687" written on the tube, so it's the exact same one as the one on the site I linked to in my first post.

Here's some info on cathode poisoning in nixies Link2


Are there any inactive cathodes to be sputtered upon in 4687?

As I suggested above, later echoed by Steve, normal operation depends on a DC supply of the correct polarity. That is why one electrode is designated as cathode, and the other as anode in the data sheet.
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