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Laithwaite lecture on gyroscopes

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Coronafix

Mon Mar 28 2011, 12:24PM

Registered Member #160 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 02:07AM
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 938

I read Eric laithwaites book years ago on linear induction motors and thought he had a brilliant mind.
I have just discovered this lecture that he did on gyroscopes and found it fascinating.

Dr. Slack

Mon Mar 28 2011, 03:11PM

Registered Member #72 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:29AM
Location: UK St. Albans
Posts: 1659

It's surprising the size of the blind-spots that otherwise brilliant people (like Tesla) have/had. Laithwaite had a thing about gyros, and couldn't see how the laws of phsyics still operated for them just as they did for simpler systems. He verged towards interstellar reactionless drive with them. Linked from the posted video is this much shorter one

, in which he mistakes the torque he would have to exert on a lever for the weight of the wheel. He starts off by weighing the wheel stationery, 40lbs, but then when he has it spinning, he doesn't weigh it again (doh!), he just waves it around. As we know, if he set it precessing, then weighed the shaft handle, that too would weigh 40lbs.

But then his stuff on linear motors was pretty solid.

Coronafix

Mon Mar 28 2011, 09:09PM

Registered Member #160 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 02:07AM
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 938

Here is another video of horendous quality but when he is much older.
He says in it that after years of scientific research into gyroscopes, that no law of physics are violated, that newtons laws still hold, but he has still found the same thing. That a reactionless drive can be created.
There is also a machine that shows this.

Nicko

Tue Mar 29 2011, 05:26AM

Registered Member #1334 Joined: Tue Feb 19 2008, 04:37PM
Location: Nr. London, UK
Posts: 615

Prof Laithwaite gave the Royal Institution Christmas Lecture series in 1974/5 - I used to go to these every year as a child (my family were Cambridge academics and knew some of the lecturers). One complete lecture from this series on gyroscopes can be seen at

.

I'm in the crowd, in the lower tier of seats, as a rather long-haired (weren't we all?) 16 year old! Blimey! That all brings back memories.... my favourites were the series given by Prof George Porter NL. I went to his 1969 series on Time Machines when I was 11 and ended up helping in several experiments on TV...

The whole list of presenters is at

- and for those who didn't already know, yes, that is the actual Michael Faraday...
Many of the past lectures can be found at

Coronafix

Tue Mar 29 2011, 11:10PM

Registered Member #160 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 02:07AM
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 938

Wow Nicko, you are a lucky man to have experienced some of those lectures up close.
Must have been very inspirational for you as a kid.

Realised I didn't post the link in my last post. Here it is.

Chris Russell

Wed Mar 30 2011, 05:39AM

... not Russel!
Registered Member #1 Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052

Dr. Slack wrote ...

It's surprising the size of the blind-spots that otherwise brilliant people (like Tesla) have/had. Laithwaite had a thing about gyros, and couldn't see how the laws of phsyics still operated for them just as they did for simpler systems.

Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself--and you are
the easiest person to fool. So you have to be very careful about
that. After you've not fooled yourself, it's easy not to fool other
scientists. You just have to be honest in a conventional way after
that.

Unfortunately, Laithwaite and Tesla (and many others) managed to fool themselves. It's a trap that nearly anyone can fall into without extreme caution.

Ash Small

Wed Mar 30 2011, 07:11PM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Chris Russell wrote ...

.Unfortunately, Laithwaite and Tesla (and many others) managed to fool themselves. It's a trap that nearly anyone can fall into without extreme caution.

Stephen Hawking has done the same thing a couple of times, lost a lot of credibility, but there were mistakes in his book 'A Brief History of Time' as well.

Nicko

Wed Mar 30 2011, 08:29PM

Registered Member #1334 Joined: Tue Feb 19 2008, 04:37PM
Location: Nr. London, UK
Posts: 615

Coronafix wrote ...

Wow Nicko, you are a lucky man to have experienced some of those lectures up close.
Must have been very inspirational for you as a kid.

Is was enormous fun for a "Dilbert"-style child, and yes, inspirational. However, I was bought up in an intensely academic environment, so it seemed almost normal. One of my earliest memories was overhearing my father in a heated discussion with a colleague in a language I didn't understand - it was Latin, and they used it for fun (most of them were academic lawyers or scientists) but then they would switch to German, French or Russian.

What was great was sitting in the lecture theatre of the Royal Institution - the very room in which Michael Faraday gave his talks. The acoustics are fantastic and the steep rake of the seats means that you feel like you're overhanging the lecturer.

The RI Christmas Lectures on the BBC are something of a tradition in the UK - they are open to the public and not very expensive at all. You get to see & hear world-class academics & lecturers from a few metres away in a great environment. Even the furniture/layout has remained essentially unchanged for 170 years.

I realised pretty early on that I never was going to have enough application to be a decent academic, so went into industry instead

IntraWinding

Thu Mar 31 2011, 02:12PM

Registered Member #2261 Joined: Mon Aug 03 2009, 01:19AM
Location: London, UK
Posts: 581

I'm surprised to see a copy of the Laithwaite NI Christmas lectures as I thought the NI had done a thorough job destroying everything associated with them to try to reduce any loss of reputation.

I used to watch the Royal Institute Christmas Lectures for Children every year on TV. Laithwaite was good, but I agree with Nico, Prof George Porter was the best (I'd like to watch his lectures again if they're out there. Are there other besides the Childrens Chrismas ones?).

As for the strange properties of gyroscopes, I still find them fascinating. Can someone explain how he lifts the 40 pound gyroscope so easily? Presumably some of the gyroscopes spin is being converted to an upwards motion and this could be measured to show all the usual laws of physics apply.

Dr. Slack

Fri Apr 01 2011, 07:29AM

Registered Member #72 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:29AM
Location: UK St. Albans
Posts: 1659

How does he lift 40 pounds straight up? He's a strong man.

How does he supply the moment in his wrist to support 40 pounds on the end of a 2 foot lever? He doesn't.

That torque is supplied by the precession of the gyroscope axis round his head. Notice in the short video I linked to that when the gyro isn't precessing, he uses two hands, one at each end of the axis. He only lets go of the heavy end when the gyro is prescessing.

Perhaps the apparent "brandishing it round his head" motion is supposed to be evidence that it's light as a feather due to gyromagic. No, the motion round his head is the precession caused by the torque of the weight of the spinning masses at the far end, and his upwards pull at the near end.

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