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Nuclear events taking place in Japan.

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Proud Mary

Sat Mar 12 2011, 11:18AM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

The BBC World Service earlier reported that the apparent explosion was theorised to be due to hydrogen produced by the decomposition of water by hot metals.

I know more about making omlettes than I do about chemistry, but assume that hydrogen could be produced in this way by all, or any, of these reactions:

Mg + H2O ==> MgO + H2
Zn + H2O ==> ZnO + H2
3Fe + H2O <==> Fe3O4 + 4H2

Ash Small

Sat Mar 12 2011, 04:47PM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Proud Mary wrote ...

The BBC World Service earlier reported that the apparent explosion was theorised to be due to hydrogen produced by the decomposition of water by hot metals.

I know more about making omlettes than I do about chemistry, but assume that hydrogen could be produced in this way by all, or any, of these reactions:

Mg + H2O ==> MgO + H2
Zn + H2O ==> ZnO + H2
3Fe + H2O <==> Fe3O4 + 4H2

Apparently Zirconium from the fuel cannisters will also react with water in the same way to release hydrogen.

Proud Mary

Sat Mar 12 2011, 06:50PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

If any good can flow from this most appalling calamity for the Japanese people, it can only be the realization that the safety of nuclear reactors cannot be guaranteed - no matter what corporate and governmental spin may claim to the contrary.

Ash Small

Sat Mar 12 2011, 09:09PM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Japan's nuclear safety agency says Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Plant No. 3 reactor's emergency cooling system not functioning

EDIT: Japan's nuclear safety agency says Caesium radiation suggests fuel has melted in Fukushima Daiichi reactor No. 1

Coronafix

Sat Mar 12 2011, 10:49PM

Registered Member #160 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 02:07AM
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 938

Patrick wrote ...

Spring break hasnt even started yet and Ceisium 137... great, just great.

Proud Mary

Sun Mar 13 2011, 12:21AM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Ash Small wrote ...

Apparently Zirconium from the fuel cannisters will also react with water in the same way to release hydrogen.

Sad to say, you are right about that, Ash. This from Guardian.co.uk online:

Officials declined to say what the temperature was inside the troubled reactor, Unit 1. At 1,200C (2,200F), the zirconium casings of the fuel rods can react with the cooling water and create hydrogen. 2,200C, the uranium fuel pellets inside the rods start to melt, the beginning of a meltdown.

Source:

Nah

Sun Mar 13 2011, 01:07AM

Registered Member #3567 Joined: Mon Jan 03 2011, 10:49PM
Location: USA, 1960s
Posts: 260

Coronafix wrote ...

Patrick wrote ...

Spring break hasnt even started yet and Ceisium 137... great, just great.

Are you fu**ing serious??
Japan has been hit by the worst disaster ever, there are thousands missing, hundreds dead, and looks like they
might have to deal with a nuclear situation.
And all you can thiink about is how it affects your spring break??!!

I'm afraid that it seems that you lack a sence of humor. Have you ever heard about this new thing called a joke?

Ash Small

Sun Mar 13 2011, 01:25AM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

.(Post deleted)

Coronafix

Sun Mar 13 2011, 02:48AM

Registered Member #160 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 02:07AM
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 938

Remind me to laugh when California falls into the ocean.
Or won't it be funny when it's happening to Americans?

Patrick

Sun Mar 13 2011, 02:57AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Chris Russell wrote ...

Let's keep the panic under control. Sunblock would be a wiser investment at this point.

No panic is underway on my part. There has been water-soluable release of radioactive chemistry, I will respectfully remind you that the consequences and potential for the pressure vessel to fail are not trivial, and please show me any nations' official emergency documents, that say: "add sea water here". If they are adding sea water to the primary cooling circuit they are at least in fear of total loss of core containment.

Chris Russell wrote ...

The reactor is shut down, no more fission is taking place on a significant level. It just takes a while for all the residual radioactive isotopes to decay enough that residual heat is no longer an issue. There is essentially zero chance, for a multitude of reasons, for a Chernobyl style release of radiation.

I dont know that anyone can be sure that bulk fission has been stopped, and the cesium is a potential sign that fuel rods are damaged/destroyed. If the fuel melts/breaks away from the control rods, then they can pile up at the bottom of the reactor assume different geometry and begin heating again.

To Ash Small, Coronafix:
No humor was intented, If you believe that had a humorous conatation then that was your mistake. Not mine. I was merely stating that in less than two days we have gone from a Earth quake, to Tsunami to multiple nuclear crisis'. Im concerned with my friends present in Japan as well, but remember hundreds of thousands were exposed during Chernobyl to at least minor radiation across europe and tens of thousands were evacuated from Pripyat and the surrounding cities in 86'.

---If just one of the 5 reactors does have a total loss of containment how many small island minorites will be screwed, like those of Bikini Atoll?
---How much enviromental damage will be done to the Pacific?
---What fission products will bioaccummulate in food sources?
---how many will be exposed, displaced, injured even if only a few are killed?
---How much unique human culture will be lost in addition to all that has happened in Japan?

I dont find any of this funny.

Spare me your righteous indignation Ash, and dismount that high horse. Your no more concerned with your friends and humanity then I or the rest of us.

I should also say that I beleive the Japanese governemnt is overwhelmed by the magnitude of this total crisis and trying to do the right thing, where as the Soviet/Russian government were clearly lying, denying, and malcious in what was said and what was not said.

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