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Forums
4hv.org :: Forums :: General Chatting
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Nuclear events taking place in Japan.

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Patrick
Mon Mar 21 2011, 09:30PM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Proud Mary wrote ...

Ebay UK is having a nuclear panic bonanza, with the usual load of old military and civil defence rubbish going for three or more times the usual prices paid for GM detectors.

radhoo wrote ...

and ebay uk is not the only website affected.
Yes I anticipated useless instrumentation being priced-up for ignorant, fearful people.
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Chris Russell
Mon Mar 21 2011, 11:55PM
Chris Russell ... not Russel!
Registered Member #1 Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052
I have one of those old CDV-715's, cost me around $10 plus shipping in good condition with the original manual. Looks like they're now going for over $50.

People are fooling themselves if they think these are anything more than an interesting shelf piece. The smallest deflection on the meter at the most sensitive range is .01r/hr, equal to a dose of 100uSv/hr. Full scale is 500 r/hr, or 5Sv/hr -- an insanely staggering amount of radiation. It is much too course an instrument to be useful unless you're living in the aftermath of a nuclear war, or are working at a melting down power plant. They also need to be maintained and calibrated regularly in order to be useful.

Nevertheless, it looks like people are buying them up, expecting them to be useful. Maybe it's time to put mine on the market!
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Proud Mary
Tue Mar 22 2011, 12:40AM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
High levels of radioactive substances have been detected in seawater near a quake-crippled nuclear power plant in Japan, its operator says.


The radioactive substances have been detected in seawater sampled Monday 100 meters south of the Fukushima No.1 plant.

A Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) official stressed that there was no threat to human health at this point, AFP reported early Tuesday.

"Normally, such radioactive substances are not detected in the area," Naoki Tsunoda.

He added that the company will continue monitoring at the same point and in other areas for any radiation.

TEPCO official said the level of iodine-131 (a major radioactive hazard present in nuclear fission products) was 127 times higher and caesium-134 (extracts from waste produced by nuclear reactors) was 25 times higher than government-set standards.


Link2

And then from another news source we read what has been obvious all along:

Some nuclear experts however questioned whether TEPCO might be dumping some of the seawater used to cool the Daiichi reactor cores and spent fuel pools back into the Pacific.

"Where does all the seawater go?" said Najmedin Meshkati, a Professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering at the University of Southern California.


Link2

Seawater was used as an emergency coolant in the Windscale Fire disaster of 1957 - and promptly pumped back into the sea - as if there were any other way of disposing of great lakes of water at short notice.

Decades were to pass before the seawater dumping of Windscale Fire effluents became public knowledge, and it looks as though TEPCO had intended a similar lack of openness.
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Dr. Drone
Tue Mar 22 2011, 01:06AM
Dr. Drone Registered Member #290 Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 08:24PM
Location:
Posts: 1673
shades
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Marko
Tue Mar 22 2011, 01:54AM
Marko Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145
Hi guys,

found a nice(no pun intended) high-resolution satellite pic of the complex in it's (mostly) current-state.

Link2

Marko
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Martin King
Tue Mar 22 2011, 02:03AM
Martin King Registered Member #3040 Joined: Tue Jul 27 2010, 03:15PM
Location: South of London. UK
Posts: 237
Proud Mary wrote ...

Some of the claims made by the author are at odds with the prevailing Linear No-Threshold Hypothesis (LNT) and go back to the safe level doctrine beloved of reactor owners and atomic testers.

Phrases like "Lowest one year dose clearly linked to cancer risk: 100mSv" invite us to ask what 'clearly' means, and recall the evasions of the tobacco industry when confronted with the statistical association between smoking and lung cancer.

To be fair the author is referencing quoted sources and not making personal claims. And as you say the LNT Hypothesis is just that a "hypothesis" AFAIKT no one really knows what's "safe"

Martin.
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Andyman
Tue Mar 22 2011, 04:03AM
Andyman Registered Member #1083 Joined: Mon Oct 29 2007, 06:16PM
Location: Upland, California
Posts: 256
Dr. Spark wrote ...

Again, what a messy way to make power. Poor Japan, just poor sand over the entire island and come back in a few thousand years. Sad thing is the children will start popping up with cancer in 10 years and know not why.

For those who didn't read the article I posted:
wrote ...

Burning more coal to produce electricity poses a greater threat to your health than the radiation released by all the nuclear accidents combined. It’s estimated by some risk analysts that for nuclear power to be as dangerous as burning coal, you’d need 25 meltdowns a year.

Premature deaths as a result of exposure to radiation released during the meltdown at the Chernobyl nuclear reactor 25 years ago are now predicted for just over 200 people a year. That totals 16,000 deaths by 2065. This looks like a scary figure until you compare it to the premature deaths caused by inhaling fine particulate matter released during the burning of fossil fuels, of which coal is the worst.

Over the same period of time, the number of people dying prematurely from exposure to fossil-fuel pollution will be 108 million. So, for every person killed by radiation from the Chernobyl accident, 6,750 will be killed by coal-fired electrical generating stations, household furnaces, fireplaces, barbecue briquettes, mowing the lawn and, of course, driving to the drugstore to pick up those potassium iodide pills.

And that’s just the fossil fuels. Another 32.4 million will be killed as a consequence of breathing second-hand tobacco smoke. In Canada, smoking alone will cause almost 120 deaths for every victim who dies prematurely as a result of exposure to radiation from the Chernobyl accident. In fact, for every radiation victim, 27 people will die prematurely from exposure to particles emitted in the upper atmosphere by passenger aircraft flying at 35,000 feet. So people flying home from Tokyo posed a bigger risk here than radiation for Fukushima.

One should also, I suppose, add in the 63-million premature deaths that will occur between now and 2065 because of traffic accidents — one more consequence of burning fossil fuels.

So let’s add them up. It turns out that for every person expected to die prematurely because of exposure to radiation from the worst nuclear accident in history, 12,741 will die before their time thanks to exposure to fossil-fuel emissions.

Put another way, the calculation of premature deaths per terawatt hour of energy production comes to this conclusion: for coal, 161; for oil, 36; for biofuels, 12; for natural gas, four; for nuclear, 0.04.


Can we PLEASE spread facts, not pointless, reasonless panic and personal fears and opinions?
I'm not saying nuclear isn't POTENTIALLY dangerous, but has everyone forgot about the BP oil spill? Don't tell me that's not messy...
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Dr. Drone
Tue Mar 22 2011, 04:16AM
Dr. Drone Registered Member #290 Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 08:24PM
Location:
Posts: 1673
shades
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Finn Hammer
Tue Mar 22 2011, 06:47AM
Finn Hammer Registered Member #205 Joined: Sat Feb 18 2006, 11:59AM
Location: Skørping, Denmark
Posts: 741
All,

There is no end to the cynisism of people addicted to Nuclear Power.
One Danish expert on the subject, yesterday, claimed that a Chernobyl every 20 years would still be better than burning coal.....

Cheers, Finn Hammer
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Steve Conner
Tue Mar 22 2011, 08:55AM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
Well, everyone I knew said the same when Tepco first announced the use of seawater. "What are they going to do with it afterwards?" Given that the fuel pond mysteriously emptied itself in the first place, presumably through a crack in the building, it was kind of obvious that it would all be going into the groundwater or back into the sea.

I think the LNT hypothesis can coexist with the threshold one. Maybe the threshold is just the point where radiation gives you more cancer than all the other carcinogens of modern life.

If this accident meant more money spent on 4th generation nukes and renewables too, that would be great. In the long run, energy sources will have to be renewable, but in the meantime there are great piles of spent fuel and surplus nuclear warheads lying around. The dream would be some nuclear technology that can burn all of that a second time and convert it to a safer form.

The fundamental problem with energy is this. When single-celled creatures wanted to clump together and conquer the dry land, they could not absorb enough oxygen from their surroundings any more. Lungs and blood circulation had to be evolved, and the composite organism had to become mobile and aggressive, gobbling up other life forms as food.

When humans crowded together into cities, the same evolution took place on a massive scale. We are all cells in the body of a colossal cancerous parasite, shovelling oil, coal, gas and uranium into its hungry maw and pooping a million kinds of toxic wastes. Put simply we are Mother Nature's tapeworms.

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