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Registered Member #27
Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058
I sure hope 4hv isn't going anywhere!!
I don't think it is going anywhere in a while but I like to know where it is going and how fast.
Us new arrivals are copiers of you initial copiers, a different crowd
This is a very good point, for the newcomers everything is new and exciting. From the view of the old members this is very inconsiderate as they tend to bring up the same old things ad infinitum. We probably need some improvement at both sides.
Is it realistic to expect an expect at anything to continually coach beginners? Some experts get a certain joy from that - others find it a serious burden. Should moderators become more strict with searching before asking or developing a thread?
Good questions. We depend on new people rising up and taking over some of the work, both as "experts" and moderators. Particulary the moderators have a very short lifetime.
Lately there have been some complaints about the level of moderating being a bit too low. It is important to complain because the moderators can't read minds, they just have to make a good compromise from the information they have available.
... not Russel! Registered Member #1
Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052
Wow, this is an excellent thread. I'm glad to see it here. I don't have a lot of time at the moment (family visiting from out of town) but there are a few things I'd like to address:
Bjørn wrote ...
Lately there have been some complaints about the level of moderating being a bit too low. It is important to complain because the moderators can't read minds, they just have to make a good compromise from the information they have available.
I've been on the fence about bringing new moderators on board. I've felt that it may be better to wait until the site transition, which forever seems to be about a month away from finally happening until a new roadblock gets thrown up (as I've mentioned elsewhere, the dramatic shortcomings of e107 are something I'm determined not to repeat, so I'm admittedly being a pain-in-the-ass perfectionist with the new software). One way or another, the new site *is* going up before the 2011 WWT. However, if there are some people with free time interested in making a positive contribution, I think we could stand to take on some new moderators at this point.
quicksilver wrote ...
Is it realistic to expect an expect at anything to continually coach beginners? Some experts get a certain joy from that - others find it a serious burden. Should moderators become more strict with searching before asking or developing a thread?
This is an excellent question. In the ham radio community, there are "Elmers" that take newcomers under a wing, and get a joy out of teaching the hobby. I've seen very similar behavior here from some of our members. To my mind, this is something to be encouraged. The problem is connecting Elmers to newbies without flooding the forum with hundreds of "SSTC Help Needed" type threads.
The most popular suggestion for dealing with this is to create a "newbie" area, where the rules are slightly different (but still hold members to a high standard), so that newbies can do newbie things without getting in the way of members who are tired of 555 flyback drivers. The most popular concern expressed about this approach is that a newbie section is easy to ignore. If there aren't enough Elmers willing to participate, such a section could easily be a breeding ground for ignorance and/or obnoxious behavior. Then, new members will either stop using it in favor of the "better" non-newbie forums. Worse, if new members are forced to use the newbie sections and they end up being awful, they may simply give up on 4hv completely.
I'd appreciate any input that others have on how to resolve this particular issue. To my mind, the best solution is to not segregate members by expertise, but to moderate the hell out of threads that could have been handled by Google or the HvWiki. I'm certainly open to suggestions, though.
doctor electrons wrote ...
I sure hope 4hv isn't going anywhere!!
It's certainly not going away. However, if we're not vigilant, it may go to hell in a handbasket.
Bjørn wrote ...
*When searching for something, the good stuff is always found in the archives.
To be fair, e107's search function doesn't allow anyone to find much of anything. There's a lot of good threads here on the current incarnation that just can't be found.
Bjørn wrote ...
*The wiki failed.
Completely fair, and quite sad. This is something I am desperately attempting to rectify with the new version of the site. I still strongly feel that the HvWiki is one of the most important things we can build as a community. There is some good information in there right now, to be fair. It just needs approximately 100 times more.
Bjørn wrote ...
*Some members do not bother to use the alphabet anymore.
Some members are going to find themselves on the unpleasant end of a wake-up call quite soon.
Bjørn wrote ...
*The average age of members have dropped to a level where we are in danger of entering an infinite blow up stuff loop.
I'm actually quite happy about the younger members, provided they can be channeled into a force for good. There seems to be a prime age for 4hv members; members in high school are usually (but certainly not always) too inexperienced to be helpful, but they have a lot of free time. Members in college have enough experience to be helpful, and enough free time to participate. Members in graduate school and in the workforce have lots of experience and could be supremely helpful, but they have extremely little free time in which to participate. Retired members should be the best of all; loads of experience, and plenty of free time, but for some reason we don't have very many of those around.
Anyway, I think we have the potential for a sort of 4hv farm system -- younger members who join up, learn, and participate can eventually grow into experienced members that can make enormously positive contributions. Not everyone will stick around that long, of course, but I know that among our very best posters today are people who originally came to 4hv with little knowledge and a willingness to learn.
Registered Member #1225
Joined: Sat Jan 12 2008, 01:24AM
Location: Beaumont, Texas, USA
Posts: 2253
This is a good thread to sticky and make people who have made a habit out of breaking the rules read
I have always, and still do, thought of Wiki as a completely different, with nothing good on it. I know this is not the case, but it just doesn't 'feel' like part of 4hv. I blame the content (or lack thereof). If only there was some way to kind of convince people to put their info there, like a way to 'give' them something. I don't know what you could do to thank people for posting there, since 4hv is non-profit and you can't give them a mosfet each time they do a good dead.
Man, the newbie thing is quite a hard thing to solve! If you make new people use what could be considered segregation, but then, it is a bit annoying when every step you take forward, you take two steps back.
I think that the idea of somehow having people spend time in the chatroom when they are newbies before becoming a poster could work, but how would you go about that? You could make 4hv an invite-only kind of thing where you will only be allowed in if you get an invitation from an op on the chatroom, but then there may not be as many visitors. That would be nice for the newbies because they would get nearly instant answers alot of the time, but then the IRC would, as you said, go to hell in a handbasket.
Im glad im not Chris Russell. making decisions like these must suck
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Personally, I think there are several types of people here who each have a different interest.
The obvious big three are the coilers, the levitators, and the rail gunners (including can crushers)
Then there are the laserers and x-rayers, while some of us just want to build an HV power supply for vacuum projects (accelerators, etc)
There are probably others as well,along with some wierd and wonderful unique projects, and there is also a certain amount of overlap.
Then there are the newbies (and I'd count myself as one of those), who still crave a basic understanding.
While there may be a lot of repetitive, basic questions asked in the General Electronics and HV forums, and while, for example, people building their first TC ask some basic TC questions, I don't think there is any way to get away from that without discouraging people from joining.
Improving the Wiki might help, but you can't expect every newbie to read the whole archive before posting a question. The archive is HUGE now. Perhaps improving the search function when the software is upgraded , as others have suggested, would help here.
At the end of the day, different people want different things from the forum, and newbies only search for forums like this in the first place because they have questions that they need answers to.
I'm not sure how you could go about ensuring that the chatroom was manned, round the clock 24 hours a day, by people prepared to answer basic newbie questions, but there may be other ways to encourage all the 'noise' to be generated in a 'newbie' area, possibly by splitting the HV forum into 'advanced HV' and 'basic HV'.
You don't want to discourage newbies, though, as they are the future of sites like this.
And no-one says you have to read every thread or reply to every thread anyway.
Personally, I think that without improvements to the search function and Wiki, it will be difficult to reduce the 'noise', due to the fact that the archived information here is so vast.
Registered Member #618
Joined: Sat Mar 31 2007, 04:15AM
Location: Us-Great Lakes
Posts: 628
The concept of a newbie and an advanced areas, admins might have to dig though the archives to actually load up a beginner area otherwise it might just be like it is now, where somebody starting off is looking for information would see that the beginner area only some some rules, and some basic stickied advice, however they may feel that the best place to get answers would be to post in the advanced user area.
A way around that could be to force a post limit so that you have to have x number of posts in the beginner area, but that has a much higher chance of driving away new members.
Just a thought but if the wiki is doing as bad as claimed, could there be an option for a sub direction in a forum that would act like the wiki, for example in the tesla coil forum have there be two sub forums one be the wiki information (maybe titled resources) and the other actually be the forum itself, considering that the downfall to the wiki might not be the limited information there but more the fact that it seems like a separate website that a user either has to return to 4hv or be opened in another window rather then being a part of 4hv.
Registered Member #30
Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
First of all, I agree. The e107 search function has all the speed and efficiency of Philip Morris looking for the cause of lung cancer.
I whipped together a quick Google custom search for you to try:
Just enter whatever you want in the search box, and it'll search the current forum, the two sets of archives and the wiki. Sorry about the ads, you have my word that I'm not making any money from them - yet
If Chris finds this acceptable (which I doubt on account of the ads) he might consider permalinking it.
Registered Member #3490
Joined: Wed Dec 08 2010, 11:55PM
Location: The Granite State
Posts: 34
A possible explanation for the over abundance of flyback and mot related questions from some of the newer members might be the fact that 1.)Theses members are younger and have less money than the older members,and 2.) These items are generally free for the picking.Gotta remember how tough it can be as a kid to get parents to go along with these interests financially.With the economy the way it is,I'm sure a lot of us are feeling the pinch hobby wise. Also,PLEASE try and do something with the search feature!Would probably put an end to a lot the redundant questions.
Registered Member #33
Joined: Sat Feb 04 2006, 01:31PM
Location: Norway
Posts: 971
803 wrote ...
I rarely come here anymore, but I see one problem
You see, if someone asks a "stupid" question, they are yelled at.
If "stupid question" means question that can be answered by spending 5 minutes on Google, or question that has already been answered 20 times in the last year, then yeah, you will be told to do some more research.
If someone does something "stupid" They are yelled at.
Don't you think people should be told when they're doing something dangerous?
If someone doesn't have a high school usderstanding of science, they are yelleed at
This is not correct, as long as you do your research, and post well written questions, nobody will yell.
If someone says something that the veteran member think is wrong.
The veterans yell at them and call them idiots.
If you post incorrect information, expect to be corrected. If you are unsure if the information you post is correct, double-check it, and it is always good to have sources and references to back up the information you're posting. What we are doing here is science, after all, and this is how science works. Incorrect information can lead to failed projects, and even worse, put people in danger.
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4HV and the future
