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Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Tue Dec 28 2010, 02:32AM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

College is important for critical thought process. You can demonstrate that easily with people that have and have not spent a lot of time in college, like myself versus my mom or brother.

I was self taught in electronics up until college because I didn't understand a great many thing, but after going through the struggle of getting my degree I understand a great deal more, albiet still a bit hard for me at times.

I studied control systems because that's what interested me, but everything these days is RF and Comm, so I'm learning a great deal about S-parameters at work and it's a struggle, but I can see what's going on in an output plot and recognize problems that the tech's don't, why?, thought process.

Yea college sucks, but the struggle forces you to grow or drop out. We all resist personal growth in the begining, but it is critical for all of us in life.

Adam Munich

Tue Dec 28 2010, 02:42AM

Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242

I'm thinking about going to a technical school rather than collage. I hear there's a good one in PA with a $16k 2 year program in aerospace. I just hate being in debt, and a $100k student load is just not for me. I don't want a credit card, and I only buy things in full. If that means a junker car so be it.

I still don't know what I want to do though... My friend and I were thinking about starting a new heathkit. (but that's another story for another time).

Ash Small

Tue Dec 28 2010, 03:22AM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Hazmatt_(The Underdog) wrote ...

College is important for critical thought process. You can demonstrate that easily with people that have and have not spent a lot of time in college, like myself versus my mom or brother.

.

I disagree, Hazmatt. My mother and brother have both been to college. My brother has degrees, MA's and PHD's, Neither are capable of thinking for themselves. They can only do what they've been taught to do.

The only thing qualifications are any good for is to get a job.

If people want to learn something they will, especially now we have the internet.

While I have the utmost respect for those who choose to become professors, etc. and I agree that college is a good place to learn if you can afford to, even forums like this are for and predominantly used by hobbyists with no formal training in the subject.

To say that some of the projects on these pages were built by people incapable of 'critical thought process' is ridiculous.

quicksilver

Tue Dec 28 2010, 05:37PM

Registered Member #1408 Joined: Fri Mar 21 2008, 03:49PM
Location: Oracle, AZ
Posts: 679

There are teachers who should not be teaching, parents who should not be parents, counselors who should not be counselors, etc, etc ad nausea.

I do not see this as being a discussion of a universality within education so much as an awareness of the challenges that may never leave us.

I have often had reason to question my own parenting skills. My youngest son is now 21. One of the lessons I taught him when he was a lot younger and we spent time together was "that life is often not fair". I explained to him that many times bad things happen to good people and visa versa.

One day he came home & told me about another child who was being bullied in school. I listened & asked him if he did anything to intercede. "No chance", he replied; "I would get in more trouble than the assholes who were bullying the other [child]".
I realized that I was not communicating ethics or appropriate interaction to my son but survival issues that eventually lead to "not getting involved". - Exactly the things I would NOT want him to do! It was a no win situation. I felt like shit.

My son once got in serious trouble for bringing a pair of scissors to school; he learned a certain reality from that (& so did I). I remember getting the call for his school and their "no tolerance" program.
Where was their "no tolerance" program when some kid was being bullied?

I understand where a lot of this frustration comes from today. I especially see how a young man can feel "damned if I do or damned if I don't" in relationship to questions regarding education, it's value, & the nature of it's quality.

Steve Conner

Tue Dec 28 2010, 06:19PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Ash Small wrote ...

To say that some of the projects on these pages were built by people incapable of 'critical thought process' is ridiculous.

No, I think it's fairer to say that they just suck at math.

Someone is going around with a signature quote that says something like "trimpots replace math" and that just about sums up the standard hobbyist approach.

Adam Munich

Tue Dec 28 2010, 06:31PM

Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242

I stole that signature.

Ash Small

Tue Dec 28 2010, 08:29PM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Steve McConner wrote ...

Ash Small wrote ...

To say that some of the projects on these pages were built by people incapable of 'critical thought process' is ridiculous.

No, I think it's fairer to say that they just suck at math.

Someone is going around with a signature quote that says something like "trimpots replace math" and that just about sums up the standard hobbyist approach.

There's no substitute for 'hands on experimentation'

Mads Barnkob

Tue Dec 28 2010, 08:56PM

Registered Member #1403 Joined: Tue Mar 18 2008, 06:05PM
Location: Denmark, Odense C
Posts: 1968

Steve McConner wrote ...

Someone is going around with a signature quote that says something like "trimpots replace math" and that just about sums up the standard hobbyist approach.

Guilty as charged...

Martin King

Tue Dec 28 2010, 10:13PM

Registered Member #3040 Joined: Tue Jul 27 2010, 03:15PM
Location: South of London. UK
Posts: 237

I'm virtually self taught, a past employer sent me (and others) to college on day release but several of us became disillusioned with what the college was teaching us (more emphasis on valve theory in a semiconductor age, outdated computers, and lecturers than didn't believe me when I told them that RS were selling 1 Farad capacitors) I dropped out and the college has now been knocked down and replaced with self storage units (best thing for it) but it hasn't affected my ability to get work, TBH I have more respect for self taught people as it means they have more interest/drive to learn than many who have gone through "the system". There are always going to be exceptions in both camps of course. Where I currently work in the top level support section we have a self taught software guy, a self taught hardware guy (me) and two engineering managers who don't have degrees (although one is currently doing an OU degree for fun)

Martin.

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Tue Dec 28 2010, 10:44PM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

All I can say is:

1. Your experiences will vary from mine
2. There is no hard and fast rule in life, just do what you have to do to survive.
3. In 10 years time you're not going to get a job that pays more then $30K without a degree. Deny it if you like, that's what employers are moving toward regardless of experience level.
The real proof of that is having experience and still being asked "What's your GPA" (Raytheon Example).

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