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Adam Munich

Sat Dec 25 2010, 03:55AM

Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242

So the other day I was told a story on how a kid was suspended for 5 days, because in the back of his truck was some orange juice, a bagel, some butter, and OH NOES a BUTTERKNIFE!!!

40 years ago, if a child showed a science teacher his new pocket knife, the teacher would pull out his and they would compare the features. Everyone lives happily ever after.
Now, the school is put on lock down, the kid is sent to the office, his knife is taken and the police are called. The child is expelled from school, sent to a bad boy school and receives "counseling" for the rest of his life. Nobody will hire him because he threatened his teacher with a weapon, so he turns to a life of crime and is mowed down by cops in the street a year later.

30 years ago by school had a boxing ring in the basement. If anyone was in argument, they received a pair of gloves and beat the shit out of each other. Now god forbid that someone punches someone on or off school property. The two kids due it out in a Walmart parking lot, and both are suspended from school for 5 days.

Freshman Friday used to be a ritual in the olden days. Cram a freshman in a garbage can and roll them down a hill. Now if you so much as make a chalk mark on a Freshman you get your ass handed to you.

Gym class.
Did you know it's illegal in my state to allow kids to pick they're own teams? It hurts fatty's feelings.
Did you know dodge ball is illegal?
Did you know baseball is illegal?
Did you know tackle football is illegal in gym class?
Did you know that you can't bring your own bow to archery club?
'nuff said.

I read an article in the newspaper today on how kids are getting bullied in lunch. Apparently stealing some french fries gets you in deep sh*t. Are you kidding me?

Years ago (5th grade) I was designing an HHO torch that was powered off the sun and a car battery to allow for cutting metal in the desert. Guess who got suspended 3 days for deigning a thermonuclear hydrogen bomb.

And school is based on nothing but tests, tests and more tests. Everything is tests. Instead of teachers spending their time actually helping kids, they are forced to teach to deadlines, and god help them if kids fail tests. I was talking to my neighbor the other day, she was talking about her job as a teacher in the 60's. She said that some kids left school very smart, others not so much. Those that "got it" went to be scientists etc, those that didn't often became greasemonkeys. All that changed when the "new way of teaching" was brought into play. The teachers were forced to teach to make kids pass tests, and you know what she said? People became a lot stupider.

And no child left behind is full of facepalm. Instead of letting the dumb kids pump gas and the smart ones succeed, the stupid ones dumb down the class for everyone.

DYK that NYS requires 4 years of history and English for a diploma, but only 3 years of math and science? why doesn't this forum have a facepalm smiley!

Science is ridiculously boring too. There are very few demonstrations, and everything is lecture. Nobody pays attention to lecture!! For example, in chem we would go through a whole unit about combustion and see not one combustion demo. Yeah, that gets kids excited about science.

Most of my school's funding goes to sports, very little to technological clubs etc. In fact they want to get rid of tech club. A country is built on sports, not scientific development right?

These are a few of the many reasons why the USA will never become a superpower again. People leave schools as wimps, dumb and fat. Seriously, people need to realize that there are smart people, dumb people, wimpy people and tough people. The smart ones become scientists, the dumb ones become mechanics. The wimps become artists, the tough guys go into sports/military/law enforcement. Try to level them all out and you get nothing but fail, and our economy has definitely proven that.

HazzWold 1993

Sat Dec 25 2010, 04:28AM

Registered Member #2563 Joined: Mon Dec 21 2009, 10:17AM
Location: Australia
Posts: 280

i got a story similar to this in an email like a month ago

Pinky's Brain

Sat Dec 25 2010, 05:37AM

Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
Location:
Posts: 837

I don't quite see how the bullying ties in ... whether it's his food in the cafeteria or his clothes after gym it's just fucking stealing, and depriving someone of his freedom and rolling him down a hill in a garbage can is kidnapping and reckless endangerment.

What you do to your friends is one thing, what you do to some picked on kid everyone dumps on is another ... kids are evil fucking bastards and they shouldn't be left to torment their own, it doesn't build character it just destroys lives and breeds sociopaths. "Kids should be left to act as kids" is a stupid argument, unless you let them run in traffic. Kids lack a decent moral framework just as much as judgement.

Tests are not a problem either ... these aren't the 60s any more, the teachers have changed as well. There is less idealism, without benchmarking quality can't be maintained. The tests are there for the teachers, not for the kids.

Teachers didn't do more demonstrations in the past because there were less tests ... hell when I went to highschool a long time ago the teachers did surprise written exams of their own every couple of weeks just to keep people on their toes. They simply had more money AND were more enthousiastic teachers (probably slightly correlated).

I'll agree the general lack of differentiated education and curricula (unless you are rich or lucky) in the US is a problem when combined with standardized testing. As well as the spread of zero tolerance.

Adam Munich

Sat Dec 25 2010, 06:44AM

Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242

"I don't quite see how the bullying ties in"
Kids need to learn ho to defend themselves. Eaht if the little tattle tale in today's school gets mugged? There's no principal to save you from a pissed off mugger. Fights build character, and the lack of fights in the last 2 decades has brought us a world full of spineless people ho submit to all authority without question, even extent of having naked images taken of them.

"Tests are not a problem either..."
Have you seen ho many standardized tests they give us? It's ridiculous, even 4th graders are getting big tests. It's not just tests though, teachers are forced to teach a curriculum, and there is no time for anything else. My global studies teacher last year decided to teach the class "his own way" for one week as an experiment. That week I learned more history than I did in the previous month.

"The tests are there for the teachers, not for the kids."
No sh*t; the education should be geared towards children. A fe quizzes once in a while is all a teacher needs to learn ho the class is doing.

"They simply had more money AND were more enthousiastic teachers"
They were enthusiastic because they got to teach kids the way they wanted, and they got to teach the interesting stuff. Very little state-mandated BS. It's not about lack of money, chemicals are very cheap. It's the distribution of money. Most of it goes to sports, when it should be going towards technology: the stuff of the future. Japan certainly has the right idea.

"I'll agree the general lack of differentiated "
Good.

"As well as the spread of zero tolerance"
Zero tolerance is getting way out of hand. It's not the way to solve things. Take columbine for example, if one of those kids had a concealed carry permit the crazy guy wouldn't have shot 20 something people. No giving guns to 10 year olds is certainly not the way to solve things, (although a collage student could responsibly handle one). But zero tolerance in grade schools is ridiculous, I once got called to the principal's office because I had brought a 'dangerous item' (a pair of wire cutters). I told them if I wanted to kill someone a pencil would do a better job, but I still got a detention.

Did I ever tell my MOT story?
I had an interesting experience with MOT's when I was in 6th grade. I made a video of me burning an apple with one, and showed it to my favorite teachers at school. The day after I was called to the principal's office and met a cop and my father there. The school had freaked out and I'm still not sure why the cop was there, though It may have been something with child endangerment. I ended up explaining how a transformer works and how it was impossible for 2kV to jump a foot to get me, and I don't remember what happened after that.

I'm going to bed now, I'll leave you with this video.

Turkey9

Sat Dec 25 2010, 06:53AM

Registered Member #1451 Joined: Wed Apr 23 2008, 03:48AM
Location: Boulder, Co
Posts: 661

Children are a product of their environment. They aren't evil fing bastards by default. Condemning children to be babied and watched over to keep them from getting their feelings hurt doesn't help anything. The bullied kids learn how to defend themselves. I was bullied in elementary school and overprotected by my parents, and I resented not being left to deal with it on my own. This led to me rebelling at an early age and teaching myself the lessons I was never allowed to learn on my own. Nevertheless, I figured it out. Learning a lesson on your own is much better than being told what to do and copying it. The argument over whether a kid is born with the knowledge of good and bad or it is taught them has been raging for years. There is evidence to support both.

It seems that the priority of the schools is correlated with the size of the town. Larger towns get more funding for technology. Small towns get the funding for sports. My high school was run by the big people in our small town who were very influenced by the town politics. The whole town liked football, so the school board gave funding to the team. In large towns, people don't know each other as well so are able to see the big picture much better. This leads to better funding in the sciences and less funding for the fine arts.

Also, some of the smartest people I know are "grease monkeys" and chose that because they love dealing with mechanical engineering in an everyday setting. Kids who struggle in school, or at least do terrible on tests and are labeled as stupid, can easily get lost in the system and never live up to their potential. Everyone learns in a different way, to standardized testing to see how well teachers are doing is ridiculous. A genius who isn't good on tests will give bad marks to the teacher.

An interesting note:
People in this country are as a whole very cynical about the security/future/strength of the US. This makes us stronger because we are always looking out for the next one to rise up. It also lets us not fall behind the curve. I believe that we will stay a super power for this reason. The only way that the USA will fall from strength is if the world is united and the USA ceases to be a country. This of course will not happen in the foreseeable future.

Pinky's Brain

Sat Dec 25 2010, 08:51AM

Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
Location:
Posts: 837

Grenadier wrote ...
Kids need to learn ho to defend themselves.

I think you have a romanticized view of bullying, or are a social darwinist. For every kid who stands up for themselves there are 10 who never do. Life gets better for them because the people around them get more civilized ... teaching the people around them it's perfectly allright to be monsters is not going to speed that up.

wrote ...
Eaht if the little tattle tale in today's school gets mugged? There's no principal to save you from a pissed off mugger. Fights build character, and the lack of fights in the last 2 decades has brought us a world full of spineless people ho submit to all authority without question, even extent of having naked images taken of them.

If you want to teach them self defense, do that, don't teach them early in life what it's like to get mugged and showing the muggers they can get away with it.

wrote ...
teachers are forced to teach a curriculum

They always have to a degree, most parents want their kids to score well on the SATs.

wrote ...
there is no time for anything else.

They can't make time for anything else because they have to get stupid kids through the tests and all which gets them through is repetition. The problem is not the test, the problem is the tests are not designed for some of the kids in their class.

wrote ...
No sh*t; the education should be geared towards children. A fe quizzes once in a while is all a teacher needs to learn ho the class is doing.

Easier said than done, it is hard to turn the clock back on half a century of making the pursuit of money the greatest ideal in society ... teaching is a business, and some of them will cut any corner they can get away with.

This isn't the 60s anymore.

Pinky's Brain

Sat Dec 25 2010, 09:30AM

Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
Location:
Posts: 837

Turkey9 wrote ...
I believe that we will stay a super power for this reason. The only way that the USA will fall from strength is if the world is united and the USA ceases to be a country. This of course will not happen in the foreseeable future.

In a sense the USA is convincing itself it has ceased to be a country ... it has some fundamentally incompatible beliefs which are making it impossible to act in it's own self interest. Free trade, low taxes AND low inflation ... you can't have all three.

Mattski

Sat Dec 25 2010, 10:17AM

Registered Member #1792 Joined: Fri Oct 31 2008, 08:12PM
Location: University of California
Posts: 527

wrote ...
Did you know tackle football is illegal in gym class?

I had plenty of fun and exercise on my junior high's flag football team. Why do we need the tackling? Although maybe not all of the sports you listed should be disallowed, from what I understand tackle football will greatly increase potential for injury. Let the people who want to play it play it on the high school team, no need to put it in the gym curriculum.

wrote ...
Freshman Friday used to be a ritual in the olden days. Cram a freshman in a garbage can and roll them down a hill. Now if you so much as make a chalk mark on a Freshman you get your ass handed to you.

I'm glad I didn't go to school with you... Tradition hardly seems a valid reason to keep stuffing freshman into trash cans. Bullying and hazing are difficult to eliminate, but I would look down on any school which doesn't work to prevent them. It's one thing if you join a fraternity and get hazed, joining a frat is by choice, even if I personally disapprove of hazing rituals. Going to school is not a choice.

I think most of the examples you have cited are good examples of the overreactions of schools to mild altercations or perceived threats or safety risks. These examples spurred no doubt partly by the paranoia of parents, and then the actual details have long been lost in the many re-tellings. But the examples I mention here I think are examples of perfectly reasonable improvements of the school experience for kids.

Adam Munich

Sat Dec 25 2010, 04:30PM

Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242

well we need a balance. There should be some bullying allowed, but the ones that are the real bullies (IE, shoving kids into lockers) should be punished. The thing is most kids who are overprotected don't rebel, and they grow up spineless. The tsa fiasco and the massive amounts of taxes they put up with should be proof enough. The gob'ment is considering another 15 cent tax on gasoline, and NY has like a 4 dollar tax on a box of cigarettes (though I don't smoke tobacco).

I know, small towns like football, my school just spent $500,000 on a ne turf, we got a $500 dollar budget fo tech club. But the thing is most schools are in small towns, and most of the population is in small towns. That means most of the country's future is in small towns. As much as people would like to disagree, the future doesn't rely on football, it's in technology. And city schools often suck, buffalo fo example has a 25% graduation rate.

No, the problem is the tests and standardized curriculum. They cram so much unneeded BS in the curriculum that there is no time to help the dumb kids.

we need specialized classes for the people interested in different areas of life. By the 5th grade I knew it was technology for me, but they still taught me a lot of BS. what we need is 60% specialty class, 40% the other basics you need to learn.

In a sense the USA is convincing itself it has ceased to be a country. It really is, most of the population has just given up hope, and I don't know what it's going to take to slap them in the face.

Tackle football is more fun, but that's not important. what is important is all of the parents refusing to let their kids get a little bruised, and the fact that they ill sue over anything. They should pass a series of acts that prevent such BS suits.
There should be 2 gym classes, one for those that want to kill each other with rubber, and one for those that don't.

And 0 tolerance is ridiculous.

Wyatt

Sat Dec 25 2010, 06:32PM

Registered Member #3490 Joined: Wed Dec 08 2010, 11:55PM
Location: The Granite State
Posts: 34

"Also, some of the smartest people I know are "grease monkeys" and chose that because they love dealing with mechanical engineering in an everyday setting." Agreed.I happen to be one of those grease monkeys and I can tell you that if you think that in this day and age you can get by with hammering on machines with a wrench you are so severely wrong.Frequency drives,inverters,transducers,PLCs all make up todays equipment.Very few of the electrical/electronics discussions on the forum don't apply to the job in one way or another(admittedly I dont work with the voltages most of us on this forum play with).Theres plenty of smart poor kids out there who cant all be Electrical Engineers and for anyone to brand a career as one for the "dumb kids" is just playing into the game you're crying about.

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