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Denied a job for visiting Wikileaks?!

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Conundrum

Tue Dec 07 2010, 01:09PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

i have a theory, the "poison pill" he released (ake the 1.4GB "insurance" file) contains data which proves once and for all that NASA has been covering up evidence of current and past complex life on Mars and elsewhere.

think about it, why would they airbrush their own pictures if not to remove stuff they don't want the public to see. The xenotech research pages which show the clearest evidence of this have mysteriously gone down recently, coincidence? I think not...
Mckinnon found part of the truth and look what happened to him.

-A

Proud Mary

Tue Dec 07 2010, 03:27PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

What a dreamer you are sometimes, AndrÃ©! Life on Mars revelations would have the effect of completely discrediting Wikileaks.

If the mystery 'locked box' is not itself a bluff, I would expect it to contain clear and unambiguous evidence of matters which are already well known around the world, but for which clear and concrete proofs are in short supply e.g. Conspiracy to Wage Aggressive War, Crimes Against Humanity, and so on.

quicksilver

Tue Dec 07 2010, 05:55PM

Registered Member #1408 Joined: Fri Mar 21 2008, 03:49PM
Location: Oracle, AZ
Posts: 679

This is deeply complex issue principally because there is substantial difference between "life on Mars" and documents that threaten lives.
The issue I have is "does the public have a right to know everything" that may take place in the government, science, industry?
I would imagine that anything that THREATENS the public welfare should be carefully weighed.
Farcical examples might be: (you have a very unsafe household appliance that has been kept from public knowledge). I would damn sure want to know that!
Science MAY be a different matter (a Microwave oven can be made into a WMD by a school child with four common parts, a soldiering iron, and no education. Or, serious drugs of abuse may be made from common materials which there is no way to regulate). Does perpetuating this knowledge do anything positive?
Government may have a discussion of "worst case scenarios" which it would not want anyone to be privy to. Is it really in the best interest of the world for everyone to know what everyone else is thinking or saying?

Therefore the way it appears is that there are "levels" of knowledge that may be managed & perhaps very useful, that the public had not had access prior to Wiki. However, there may be something about the "public's right to know" that has a limit.
We could examine this from an interpersonal standpoint. Does the public have a right to know that someone had emotional difficulties to the degree that they considered suicide? They may have that right IF that person were in a decision making role in the executive branch of government, but would that include ALL people?

There has been quite a bit of discussion on the dissemination of "bomb-making" information on the internet. But hasn't black powder's formula been available for centuries? Scaling that up can simply be a matter of weight and volume. What's more; children can (and do) make it. The formulas for manufacturing drug of abuse has become common knowledge where at one time a person had to know at least the rudiments of chemistry & lab technique.

Finally we come to government and all the secrets that go along with the discussion of any country's political agenda. Does the public have a right to know all of what any government discusses, develops contingencies for, or finds alternatives?

We obviously have gradations of these "examples". But in it's most pure form a site like Wiki would be an arbitrator as well as a source! They COULD CHOOSE not to provide information as well as provide it. They could also be fooled! If their material were always taken at face value they would be little different than a government that uses "disinformation" for the purposes of manipulation.

I don't see this issue as a simple agenda. There are implications of knowledge. The existence of the internet has proved that with a virtual library in anyone's disposal. We are not sure what this level of access will alter in our society in years of decades to come. This flood of information is too new to even make a prediction. Will we become so dependent upon this thing called the internet that we do little else? This is already a reality with many people. What would the results be? We also know that we can't really "trust" the material on the internet. Greed and petty emotionalism has made that common place.

Tesla Fan

Wed Dec 08 2010, 09:34AM

Registered Member #3353 Joined: Sat Oct 23 2010, 11:21PM
Location: Greece
Posts: 90

Update: WikiLeaks founder is jailed (sex allegations)

quicksilver,
i agree that the internet is a "virtual library in anyone's disposal" but doesn't bother you that NSA is watching everything and everyone?

EDIT:

Oops, just saw that Grenadier has already beat me to the news (new thread)

quicksilver

Wed Dec 08 2010, 04:18PM

Registered Member #1408 Joined: Fri Mar 21 2008, 03:49PM
Location: Oracle, AZ
Posts: 679

Tesla Fan wrote ...

quicksilver,
i agree that the internet is a "virtual library in anyone's disposal" but doesn't bother you that NSA is watching everything and everyone?

Realistically, it bothers me very deeply. The point I was attempting to make however is that the issue as a whole is greater than the sum of it's parts: primarily because they are so diverse.
I do my level best not to defend censorship. I also do my best to see other sides of any discussion and here was have some wide ranging material.
I also had thought that governments or whomever would "find" some allegation to eventually crush Wiki. I would have bet on it.

I believe this man may have bought a place in history; what he will pay for that history may be staggering.
Privacy is a very Western "human right", yet it is very ingrained. The UK paid dearly in having it's citizens under cameras at every turn.
Was there ANY public debate prior to placing it's citizens on camera every tie they step outside their home? The USA has some of that but we appear to target our citizens with more subterfuge.

I have discussed this often with people who continually say "if you've done nothing wrong, why care?" And that makes me shake my head in wonder at the shallow depth of that person's conception of the right to privacy.
An example would be medical confidentiality. If a person replies as I illustrated above; I simply ask him why he would care if we discussed his hemorrhoids or her vaginal warts in public?
"Well it's embarrassing", they say.
What about your wife's infidelity, that broke your heart so deeply? Why not put that on a bumper sticker for all to read about?
"Well that's none of anyone's business what happens in my private life"......

So there IS a privacy line that people can easily recognize; but the double-edged sword is that Wikileaks can inform us of our privacy deprivations while at the same time expose private matters that may endanger lives.....THAT is where the complications become a matter for us to examine in depth.

Tesla Fan

Wed Dec 08 2010, 07:53PM

Registered Member #3353 Joined: Sat Oct 23 2010, 11:21PM
Location: Greece
Posts: 90

Yes, i agree that wikileaks was "too good to last", i am amazed that a site like that even exists. It takes a lot of b***s to stand up to governments (the people behind them actually), and unless your IQ is same as a rock's you know that there will be consequences. I am sure the people behind wikileaks had lots of troubles before, not all things make the headlines. If you have the power you can make peoples lives a hell and they can do nothing about it or even prove that you are doing it... For me, the thing that makes people like Julian Assange great is that they do what they do knowing that there will be consequences.

I disagree with you about privacy being a very Western "human right" and i also think that US citizens are in a far worst place that UK ones, but i don't want to get into this now.

As about people, meaning the average man, we are all full of s***. "if you've done nothing wrong, why care?" seems like something out of a far-right-wing's mouth, or someone who lets the TV do all the thinking for him. People are shaped into molds from the day they are born, made "stupid", made too anxious about there little or big issues to see the greater picture or do something about it. And we pushed to be more and more selfish, dog-at-dog and all that. Not too long ago people where all "close" one to another, small villages, neighborhoods, people used to care for the fellow man, the man that lived next door. Now it is all about myself, at the surface things may still look the same, but no one would stick their neck out for their neighbor. The media have a large role in all that, for example TV is filled with reality shows because people want to see other people fail (you can't sing right, you can't cook right, you can't dance right, and so on) and see other people with more problems than them (in Oprah and other shows).

Anyway, i think i got a bit carried away, remember NSA is watching

quicksilver

Wed Dec 08 2010, 08:59PM

Registered Member #1408 Joined: Fri Mar 21 2008, 03:49PM
Location: Oracle, AZ
Posts: 679

You've piqued my interest.....And I realize you may not want to digress.
However let me clarify that I was alluding to Asian historical monarchist control vs. Occidental changes in societal demands for individual expression.
.....A generality certainly, but I think one with some historical accuracy.

Note; for when this is stored with the rest of my material written on the internet -
And I want to underline that as a mind-numbed robot waiting for what's coming up next on television; I get lost in exploratory conversation. What is vital to me is when is "Dancing With The Stars" on next?

Tesla Fan

Wed Dec 08 2010, 09:17PM

Registered Member #3353 Joined: Sat Oct 23 2010, 11:21PM
Location: Greece
Posts: 90

quicksilver wrote ...

Note; for when this is stored with the rest of my material written on the internet -
And I want to underline that as a mind-numbed robot waiting for what's coming up next on television; I get lost in exploratory conversation. What is vital to me is when is "Dancing With The Stars" on next?

I hope you are just being funny, i hope you are not offended by my opinions on these matters, i was talking about the "mass" of people at all countries around the globe.

Conundrum

Wed Dec 08 2010, 09:57PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

Any ideas how many people in the UK have downloaded the "insurance" file?

Also what are your opinions on the charges against Assange, reckon they trumped up the charges to obtain leverage?

-A

Coronafix

Wed Dec 08 2010, 10:55PM

Registered Member #160 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 02:07AM
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 938

This is all obviously a retaliation to a world gone insane.
Where everyones common rights are slowly being eroded away, there is more and more secrecy "needed" in private and military sectors. I think everyone knows we are worse off than we were ten years ago, and this has naturally created revolutionaries like Wikileaks.
When do the people pull their heads out of the box and say enough is enough, we won't be arrested and held without charge for an indefinate period of time, we won't risk our children to xray scanners to board a plane and no you can't sexually molest them instead. The list of rights we don't have anymore goes on and on, we don't have the right to carry a gun or even a knife here in Australia anymore.
This Wikileaks thing will now be used as an excuse to censor the internet, whether the people want it or not.
Democracy isn't what we believe it is anymore, most people are spoon fed what to think via the Cathode Ray Nipple and then believe they are informed!! The commercial media has been shown time and again to have vested interests yet we think it is still a free media. All falls before the mighty dollar.

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