coil + rail gun
guitarlord66, Tue Feb 17 2009, 10:22AMHey,
I finished a coilgun about 2 - 3 months ago which can shoot through 2 soda cans, its made from some camera circuit chargers and 330v 1000uf bank of camera capacitors. I'm quite happy with the power its not really too dangerous but I want to try something different. If I was to build a small railgun and power it by 1000 - 2000 uf at 330v, drilled a round hole through the middle and connected my coil gun to the back of it and wrapped the projectile in alluminium foil would it work? I just want to be able to have it as strong as my coil gun or a little stronger but with a bang and abit of plasma blast out the barrel mainly for looks and fun. My only concern is would the rail degrade much? being only a small amount of power and if they would, how many shots would I get out of it?
Sorry if this has already been asked or is a stupid question :)
Re: coil + rail gun
KLH, Tue Feb 17 2009, 08:53PM
Aluminum foil would probably vaporize instantly. You need something a LOT thicker than that to sustain the current required. Perhaps you could cut the head off of a steel bolt and put thin hex nuts around the bolt; the steel would accomodate the coilgun and the aluminum would be for the railgun.
KLH, Tue Feb 17 2009, 08:53PM
Aluminum foil would probably vaporize instantly. You need something a LOT thicker than that to sustain the current required. Perhaps you could cut the head off of a steel bolt and put thin hex nuts around the bolt; the steel would accomodate the coilgun and the aluminum would be for the railgun.
Re: coil + rail gun
hotcrazyfruit, Mon Feb 23 2009, 02:01AM
you could most certainly do that. the aluminum WOULD vaporize, but that is what would make the plasma you are after. just put one layer around your projectile, and when the aluminum vaporizes, you still have a metal projectile to conduct. the only thing you would have to do is divide your bank into 2 pieces. one for the coil and one for the rails. posts pics if you do it!
hotcrazyfruit, Mon Feb 23 2009, 02:01AM
you could most certainly do that. the aluminum WOULD vaporize, but that is what would make the plasma you are after. just put one layer around your projectile, and when the aluminum vaporizes, you still have a metal projectile to conduct. the only thing you would have to do is divide your bank into 2 pieces. one for the coil and one for the rails. posts pics if you do it!
Re: coil + rail gun
guitarlord66, Mon Feb 23 2009, 03:51AM
What size rails for the railgun should I make? and will alluminium be good?
Will the rails last, I dont want to get like 20 shots out of it and it fall apart or something.
The projectile is round, 30mm long and 5mm diameter. The coilguns barrel is 6mm inner diameter and 7mm outer diameter.
The coilgun will be single stage with a coil still being decided, It's looking to be around 30mm long, 20AWG, 6-8 layers.
The capacitors are from disposable camera's with a voltage of 330v and capacitance of around 80uf - 120uf. I have maybe around a max of 5000uf at 330v I can use but change time would be quite long.
Can I run the capacitors in parallel / series so there at 660v?
What kind of voltage / micro farads should the railgun have if the coilgun will be shooting at 25 - 40 m/s?
Can someone please help me with some of these questions.
guitarlord66, Mon Feb 23 2009, 03:51AM
What size rails for the railgun should I make? and will alluminium be good?
Will the rails last, I dont want to get like 20 shots out of it and it fall apart or something.
The projectile is round, 30mm long and 5mm diameter. The coilguns barrel is 6mm inner diameter and 7mm outer diameter.
The coilgun will be single stage with a coil still being decided, It's looking to be around 30mm long, 20AWG, 6-8 layers.
The capacitors are from disposable camera's with a voltage of 330v and capacitance of around 80uf - 120uf. I have maybe around a max of 5000uf at 330v I can use but change time would be quite long.
Can I run the capacitors in parallel / series so there at 660v?
What kind of voltage / micro farads should the railgun have if the coilgun will be shooting at 25 - 40 m/s?
Can someone please help me with some of these questions.
Re: coil + rail gun
hotcrazyfruit, Tue Feb 24 2009, 02:12AM
wow barry, i really like that site. i think you just made my decision final. i cant believe the prices on copper there!!!! its amazing, thanks again.
hotcrazyfruit, Tue Feb 24 2009, 02:12AM
wow barry, i really like that site. i think you just made my decision final. i cant believe the prices on copper there!!!! its amazing, thanks again.
Re: coil + rail gun
Camel, Tue Feb 24 2009, 02:52AM
Wrong thread? xD
Camel, Tue Feb 24 2009, 02:52AM
Wrong thread? xD
Re: coil + rail gun
guitarlord66, Tue Feb 24 2009, 04:09AM
Aww, I thought someone had replied... :(
guitarlord66, Tue Feb 24 2009, 04:09AM
Aww, I thought someone had replied... :(
Re: coil + rail gun
hotcrazyfruit, Tue Feb 24 2009, 09:28PM
lol.. o sorry. btw, aluminum will be more than enough, remember camera capacitors do not really store that much energy, so you could u 12 gauge wire to connect them all. the rails will last ten of thousands of shots, the only time you need to worry about rails deteriorating is rail guns above about 1.5 kj. as a contrast, camera capacitors are roughly 5-10 joules each. and i was wondering, what do you mean by drill a round hol through it? the rails are not supposed to constantly conduct with no projectile in it. the idea lots of people sue is to use the projectile as the switch, so when it contacts the rails the projectile completes the circuit. yes you can run the capacitors in a series and parralel mix, with 2 capacitors in series, then THAT in parralel. keep in mind the energy will stay the same, it will just be harder to find a charging supply for it. as for the question about what size and voltage, it all depends on the projectile. i made a program in turing (if you know what that is ) that calculates multiple things about capacitors and coilguns/railgun. ill compile it into an .exe and post it next time i go to my dad's house.
hotcrazyfruit, Tue Feb 24 2009, 09:28PM
lol.. o sorry. btw, aluminum will be more than enough, remember camera capacitors do not really store that much energy, so you could u 12 gauge wire to connect them all. the rails will last ten of thousands of shots, the only time you need to worry about rails deteriorating is rail guns above about 1.5 kj. as a contrast, camera capacitors are roughly 5-10 joules each. and i was wondering, what do you mean by drill a round hol through it? the rails are not supposed to constantly conduct with no projectile in it. the idea lots of people sue is to use the projectile as the switch, so when it contacts the rails the projectile completes the circuit. yes you can run the capacitors in a series and parralel mix, with 2 capacitors in series, then THAT in parralel. keep in mind the energy will stay the same, it will just be harder to find a charging supply for it. as for the question about what size and voltage, it all depends on the projectile. i made a program in turing (if you know what that is ) that calculates multiple things about capacitors and coilguns/railgun. ill compile it into an .exe and post it next time i go to my dad's house.
Re: coil + rail gun
guitarlord66, Tue Feb 24 2009, 11:08PM
Thanks,
I'm glad that you said they will last thousands of shots, Degrading was what was putting me off of making one. Please do get that program for me I'd like to see it. I know that I'll use the projectile as the switch what I meant was because my projectile is round (coming from the coilgun) I would drill a round "barrel" through the railgun. I'm not going with that idea anymore because its to hard to drill like that (I tried). Im probaly going to use a router to make a round on the top and bottom covers and leave the rails square. Something like this -
[Edit: Image size]
guitarlord66, Tue Feb 24 2009, 11:08PM
hotcrazyfruit wrote ...
lol.. o sorry. btw, aluminum will be more than enough, remember camera capacitors do not really store that much energy, so you could u 12 gauge wire to connect them all. the rails will last ten of thousands of shots, the only time you need to worry about rails deteriorating is rail guns above about 1.5 kj. as a contrast, camera capacitors are roughly 5-10 joules each. and i was wondering, what do you mean by drill a round hol through it? the rails are not supposed to constantly conduct with no projectile in it. the idea lots of people sue is to use the projectile as the switch, so when it contacts the rails the projectile completes the circuit. yes you can run the capacitors in a series and parralel mix, with 2 capacitors in series, then THAT in parralel. keep in mind the energy will stay the same, it will just be harder to find a charging supply for it. as for the question about what size and voltage, it all depends on the projectile. i made a program in turing (if you know what that is ) that calculates multiple things about capacitors and coilguns/railgun. ill compile it into an .exe and post it next time i go to my dad's house.
lol.. o sorry. btw, aluminum will be more than enough, remember camera capacitors do not really store that much energy, so you could u 12 gauge wire to connect them all. the rails will last ten of thousands of shots, the only time you need to worry about rails deteriorating is rail guns above about 1.5 kj. as a contrast, camera capacitors are roughly 5-10 joules each. and i was wondering, what do you mean by drill a round hol through it? the rails are not supposed to constantly conduct with no projectile in it. the idea lots of people sue is to use the projectile as the switch, so when it contacts the rails the projectile completes the circuit. yes you can run the capacitors in a series and parralel mix, with 2 capacitors in series, then THAT in parralel. keep in mind the energy will stay the same, it will just be harder to find a charging supply for it. as for the question about what size and voltage, it all depends on the projectile. i made a program in turing (if you know what that is ) that calculates multiple things about capacitors and coilguns/railgun. ill compile it into an .exe and post it next time i go to my dad's house.
Thanks,
I'm glad that you said they will last thousands of shots, Degrading was what was putting me off of making one. Please do get that program for me I'd like to see it. I know that I'll use the projectile as the switch what I meant was because my projectile is round (coming from the coilgun) I would drill a round "barrel" through the railgun. I'm not going with that idea anymore because its to hard to drill like that (I tried). Im probaly going to use a router to make a round on the top and bottom covers and leave the rails square. Something like this -
[Edit: Image size]
Re: coil + rail gun
hotcrazyfruit, Wed Feb 25 2009, 04:53PM
Have you tried using a dril press? with the rail assembly in a perpendicular jig? i beleive you could do that. but the router idea might not work. because the round coil projectile, would only contact at one very small point on the projectile. which may cause welding if you decide to upgrade the bank. i still think you should go with drilling a hole between them.
hotcrazyfruit, Wed Feb 25 2009, 04:53PM
Have you tried using a dril press? with the rail assembly in a perpendicular jig? i beleive you could do that. but the router idea might not work. because the round coil projectile, would only contact at one very small point on the projectile. which may cause welding if you decide to upgrade the bank. i still think you should go with drilling a hole between them.
Re: coil + rail gun
guitarlord66, Wed Feb 25 2009, 10:37PM
Ok, I might try again but I'll have to make up a bracket to hold it once I made it, I destroyed my old railgun trying to drill a hole through it.
guitarlord66, Wed Feb 25 2009, 10:37PM
hotcrazyfruit wrote ...
Have you tried using a dril press? with the rail assembly in a perpendicular jig? i beleive you could do that. but the router idea might not work. because the round coil projectile, would only contact at one very small point on the projectile. which may cause welding if you decide to upgrade the bank. i still think you should go with drilling a hole between them.
Have you tried using a dril press? with the rail assembly in a perpendicular jig? i beleive you could do that. but the router idea might not work. because the round coil projectile, would only contact at one very small point on the projectile. which may cause welding if you decide to upgrade the bank. i still think you should go with drilling a hole between them.
Ok, I might try again but I'll have to make up a bracket to hold it once I made it, I destroyed my old railgun trying to drill a hole through it.
Re: coil + rail gun
j.azz, Thu Feb 26 2009, 05:00PM
What about drilling a solid alu/copper block and then cut it into two halfs with two cuts?
j.azz, Thu Feb 26 2009, 05:00PM
What about drilling a solid alu/copper block and then cut it into two halfs with two cuts?
Re: coil + rail gun
guitarlord66, Fri Feb 27 2009, 02:32AM
Thanks not a bad idea!
guitarlord66, Fri Feb 27 2009, 02:32AM
j.azz wrote ...
What about drilling a solid alu/copper block and then cut it into two halfs with two cuts?
What about drilling a solid alu/copper block and then cut it into two halfs with two cuts?
Thanks not a bad idea!
Re: coil + rail gun
rp181, Fri Feb 27 2009, 02:41AM
That would only work if the copper is separated by the thickness of the blade. I suggest drilling a hole, and cutting it in half. Get a rod the same diameter as the hole, and keep cutting till the slit is wide enough.
rp181, Fri Feb 27 2009, 02:41AM
That would only work if the copper is separated by the thickness of the blade. I suggest drilling a hole, and cutting it in half. Get a rod the same diameter as the hole, and keep cutting till the slit is wide enough.
Re: coil + rail gun
j.azz, Fri Feb 27 2009, 04:17PM
Well, I suggested 2 cuts parallel to each other. which is quasi the same... ;)
j.azz, Fri Feb 27 2009, 04:17PM
Well, I suggested 2 cuts parallel to each other. which is quasi the same... ;)
Re: coil + rail gun
guitarlord66, Sat Feb 28 2009, 11:51AM
Instead of using alluminium foil around the projectile I'm going to try making this -
The steel projectile will be inside a 1mm alluminium tube.
I have access to a metal lathe.
guitarlord66, Sat Feb 28 2009, 11:51AM
Instead of using alluminium foil around the projectile I'm going to try making this -
The steel projectile will be inside a 1mm alluminium tube.
I have access to a metal lathe.
Re: coil + rail gun
hotcrazyfruit, Sat Feb 28 2009, 11:35PM
a 1mm projectile will be very small, it will saturate very quickly, saturation is when a farrace material becomes so "saturated" with electro magnetism, and cannot become any more saturated. meaning there is a limit on the acceleration of the projectile, untill you start using more dense projectiles, or larger projectiles. the other option to eliminate this saturation limit is to split the discharge among multiple stages, this can be done via led and a photo transistor, and an SCR to trigger each succeeding stage. i would recommend you do this if you are using a small projectile. make sure you get the sttachment, its my program i made in turing, feel free to distribute to every one else. make sure that all calculations may be slightly off, and that there are other losses other than the ones you input. xD. good luck.
]coilgun.zip[/file]
hotcrazyfruit, Sat Feb 28 2009, 11:35PM
a 1mm projectile will be very small, it will saturate very quickly, saturation is when a farrace material becomes so "saturated" with electro magnetism, and cannot become any more saturated. meaning there is a limit on the acceleration of the projectile, untill you start using more dense projectiles, or larger projectiles. the other option to eliminate this saturation limit is to split the discharge among multiple stages, this can be done via led and a photo transistor, and an SCR to trigger each succeeding stage. i would recommend you do this if you are using a small projectile. make sure you get the sttachment, its my program i made in turing, feel free to distribute to every one else. make sure that all calculations may be slightly off, and that there are other losses other than the ones you input. xD. good luck.
]coilgun.zip[/file]
Re: coil + rail gun
guitarlord66, Sun Mar 01 2009, 12:18AM
I must have written it wrong... the projectile is 5mm diameter and 30mm long with a 1mm tube of alluminium that wrappes around the projectile like in the pics and thanks for posting the app I'll have a look at it now.
guitarlord66, Sun Mar 01 2009, 12:18AM
hotcrazyfruit wrote ...
a 1mm projectile will be very small, it will saturate very quickly, saturation is when a farrace material becomes so "saturated" with electro magnetism, and cannot become any more saturated. meaning there is a limit on the acceleration of the projectile, untill you start using more dense projectiles, or larger projectiles. the other option to eliminate this saturation limit is to split the discharge among multiple stages, this can be done via led and a photo transistor, and an SCR to trigger each succeeding stage. i would recommend you do this if you are using a small projectile. make sure you get the sttachment, its my program i made in turing, feel free to distribute to every one else. make sure that all calculations may be slightly off, and that there are other losses other than the ones you input. xD. good luck.
a 1mm projectile will be very small, it will saturate very quickly, saturation is when a farrace material becomes so "saturated" with electro magnetism, and cannot become any more saturated. meaning there is a limit on the acceleration of the projectile, untill you start using more dense projectiles, or larger projectiles. the other option to eliminate this saturation limit is to split the discharge among multiple stages, this can be done via led and a photo transistor, and an SCR to trigger each succeeding stage. i would recommend you do this if you are using a small projectile. make sure you get the sttachment, its my program i made in turing, feel free to distribute to every one else. make sure that all calculations may be slightly off, and that there are other losses other than the ones you input. xD. good luck.
I must have written it wrong... the projectile is 5mm diameter and 30mm long with a 1mm tube of alluminium that wrappes around the projectile like in the pics and thanks for posting the app I'll have a look at it now.
Re: coil + rail gun
hotcrazyfruit, Sun Mar 01 2009, 03:01AM
ahhhh i see. sorry for the long and boring explanation :\ lol. that sounds alot better than 1 mm. if you decide to ever increase the power though, remember to always move to a larger projectile or split the discharge among multiple stages. and have fun with the app, i use it all of the time for my coil guns / rail guns.
cheers,
hotcrazyfruit, Sun Mar 01 2009, 03:01AM
ahhhh i see. sorry for the long and boring explanation :\ lol. that sounds alot better than 1 mm. if you decide to ever increase the power though, remember to always move to a larger projectile or split the discharge among multiple stages. and have fun with the app, i use it all of the time for my coil guns / rail guns.
cheers,
Re: coil + rail gun
rp181, Sun Mar 01 2009, 03:34AM
Not to put you down, but that app seems kind of pointless to me. You need to know the information in the first place to get your input value( projectile speed, joules). Keep at it, and you can make some nice programs. I made one awhile back, some fields are extra ( I use it to export data) but the formula's are right.
I am kind of confused by this thread, all i see is a railgun, but no coilgun.
Good luck.
rp181, Sun Mar 01 2009, 03:34AM
Not to put you down, but that app seems kind of pointless to me. You need to know the information in the first place to get your input value( projectile speed, joules). Keep at it, and you can make some nice programs. I made one awhile back, some fields are extra ( I use it to export data) but the formula's are right.
I am kind of confused by this thread, all i see is a railgun, but no coilgun.
Good luck.
Re: coil + rail gun
guitarlord66, Sun Mar 01 2009, 04:54AM
The reason why you dont see a coilgun yet is because I've built coilguns in the past but only one really crap railgun that hardly worked. So I'm working out how to shoot a round coilgun projectile into a railgun. I've basically worked out what I'm going to make now though, Ill post a few pics I made in Pro Desktop. Oh and the rails are going to be brass.
guitarlord66, Sun Mar 01 2009, 04:54AM
rp181 wrote ...
Not to put you down, but that app seems kind of pointless to me. You need to know the information in the first place to get your input value( projectile speed, joules). Keep at it, and you can make some nice programs. I made one awhile back, some fields are extra ( I use it to export data) but the formula's are right.
I am kind of confused by this thread, all i see is a railgun, but no coilgun.
Good luck.
Not to put you down, but that app seems kind of pointless to me. You need to know the information in the first place to get your input value( projectile speed, joules). Keep at it, and you can make some nice programs. I made one awhile back, some fields are extra ( I use it to export data) but the formula's are right.
I am kind of confused by this thread, all i see is a railgun, but no coilgun.
Good luck.
The reason why you dont see a coilgun yet is because I've built coilguns in the past but only one really crap railgun that hardly worked. So I'm working out how to shoot a round coilgun projectile into a railgun. I've basically worked out what I'm going to make now though, Ill post a few pics I made in Pro Desktop. Oh and the rails are going to be brass.
Re: coil + rail gun
hotcrazyfruit, Sun Mar 01 2009, 04:18PM
and guitar lord, that design looks really good, good luck with it.
hotcrazyfruit, Sun Mar 01 2009, 04:18PM
rp181 wrote ...
Not to put you down, but that app seems kind of pointless to me. You need to know the information in the first place to get your input value( projectile speed, joules). Keep at it, and you can make some nice programs. I made one awhile back, some fields are extra ( I use it to export data) but the formula's are right.
I am kind of confused by this thread, all i see is a railgun, but no coilgun.
Good luck.
before i reformatted, i made a program that would graph the trajectory of a bullets flight path, given a bullets weight, projectile speed, projectile shape, and it even calculated the ballistic coefficient. given the diameter and length. i lost it when i reformatted after a frustrating virus took over :( . i would rewrite it but im too lazy now.Not to put you down, but that app seems kind of pointless to me. You need to know the information in the first place to get your input value( projectile speed, joules). Keep at it, and you can make some nice programs. I made one awhile back, some fields are extra ( I use it to export data) but the formula's are right.
I am kind of confused by this thread, all i see is a railgun, but no coilgun.
Good luck.
and guitar lord, that design looks really good, good luck with it.
Re: coil + rail gun
guitarlord66, Mon Mar 02 2009, 05:43AM
Should I make the coilgun barrel go into the rails by about 50mm? (The rails are going to be 200mm long) I saw on a thread around here that you "block" the first part of the rails to get the magnetic forces behind the projectile when the high voltage kicks in.
guitarlord66, Mon Mar 02 2009, 05:43AM
Should I make the coilgun barrel go into the rails by about 50mm? (The rails are going to be 200mm long) I saw on a thread around here that you "block" the first part of the rails to get the magnetic forces behind the projectile when the high voltage kicks in.
Re: coil + rail gun
hotcrazyfruit, Mon Mar 02 2009, 06:02PM
yes you need to insulate the firts part of the rails, or else when the projectile contacts, it will possible kick in the opposite direction before the force is overcome by thye inertia of the projectile. thus pushing it past, but decreasing output speed and efficiency.
hotcrazyfruit, Mon Mar 02 2009, 06:02PM
yes you need to insulate the firts part of the rails, or else when the projectile contacts, it will possible kick in the opposite direction before the force is overcome by thye inertia of the projectile. thus pushing it past, but decreasing output speed and efficiency.
Re: coil + rail gun
guitarlord66, Tue Mar 03 2009, 06:00AM
Thanks for all your help I'm going to be building the railgun barrel very soon. 
guitarlord66, Tue Mar 03 2009, 06:00AM
hotcrazyfruit wrote ...
yes you need to insulate the firts part of the rails, or else when the projectile contacts, it will possible kick in the opposite direction before the force is overcome by thye inertia of the projectile. thus pushing it past, but decreasing output speed and efficiency.
yes you need to insulate the firts part of the rails, or else when the projectile contacts, it will possible kick in the opposite direction before the force is overcome by thye inertia of the projectile. thus pushing it past, but decreasing output speed and efficiency.
Thanks for all your help
I'm going to be building the railgun barrel very soon. Print this page