Whats the difference between lightning and an EMP pulse??
Our Finest Hour, Wed Jan 28 2009, 07:41AMHaving read a few posts on EMP pulses It got my tiny mind wondering why an EMP pulse could harm electronics when lightning does not have the same effect (unless actually striking or very close)!amazed
Re: Whats the difference between lightning and an EMP pulse??
big5824, Wed Jan 28 2009, 02:16PM
because emp's are created with currents in the range of millions of amps, where lightning strikes are only about 50KA. I know explosively pumped flux compression generators create a very strong pulse, but im not too sure how they work
big5824, Wed Jan 28 2009, 02:16PM
because emp's are created with currents in the range of millions of amps, where lightning strikes are only about 50KA. I know explosively pumped flux compression generators create a very strong pulse, but im not too sure how they work
Re: Whats the difference between lightning and an EMP pulse??
Our Finest Hour, Thu Jan 29 2009, 12:45AM
Thanks, I always imagined lightning to have a higher charge than 50Kva
Our Finest Hour, Thu Jan 29 2009, 12:45AM
Thanks, I always imagined lightning to have a higher charge than 50Kva
Re: Whats the difference between lightning and an EMP pulse??
rp181, Thu Jan 29 2009, 12:51AM
Flux compression devices are very simple (in concept) but they use high explosives.
rp181, Thu Jan 29 2009, 12:51AM
Flux compression devices are very simple (in concept) but they use high explosives.
Re: Whats the difference between lightning and an EMP pulse??
teslacoolguy, Thu Jan 29 2009, 12:54AM
Im pretty sure they are like a really big gun with a coil wrapped around the barrel.
teslacoolguy, Thu Jan 29 2009, 12:54AM
Im pretty sure they are like a really big gun with a coil wrapped around the barrel.
Re: Whats the difference between lightning and an EMP pulse??
Myke, Thu Jan 29 2009, 02:09AM
Here is a Wikipedia article with info about the EMP generators that involve explosives.
Myke, Thu Jan 29 2009, 02:09AM
Here is a Wikipedia article with info about the EMP generators that involve explosives.
Re: Whats the difference between lightning and an EMP pulse??
likewhat, Thu Jan 29 2009, 02:51AM
A flux compression generator needs to drive something to generate RF at a high power, or else it would only effect things that were very close also. Flux compression generators can put out hundreds of megaamps of current, but only into a very low impedance load. That is why they usually use them to drive a vircator, because a relativistic magnetron looks like an open and it wouldnt be able to drive it. These are HPM devices that make narrow band microwaves that can be directed and shot at something to destroy it, but it still needs to be pretty close, maybe hundreds of meters or km depending on the antenna, but not huge areas like a nuclear weapon detonated in the ionosphere.
Lightning strikes are huge arcs, but they are not like HPM devices that are designed to efficiently create high power RF in the GW power range and be directed. So much of the energy in lightning is wasted on not specifically making RF.
It can launch Waves into the ionosphere that can be heard on the other side of the planet however. Do a google search for Whistler waves.
likewhat, Thu Jan 29 2009, 02:51AM
A flux compression generator needs to drive something to generate RF at a high power, or else it would only effect things that were very close also. Flux compression generators can put out hundreds of megaamps of current, but only into a very low impedance load. That is why they usually use them to drive a vircator, because a relativistic magnetron looks like an open and it wouldnt be able to drive it. These are HPM devices that make narrow band microwaves that can be directed and shot at something to destroy it, but it still needs to be pretty close, maybe hundreds of meters or km depending on the antenna, but not huge areas like a nuclear weapon detonated in the ionosphere.
Lightning strikes are huge arcs, but they are not like HPM devices that are designed to efficiently create high power RF in the GW power range and be directed. So much of the energy in lightning is wasted on not specifically making RF.
It can launch Waves into the ionosphere that can be heard on the other side of the planet however. Do a google search for Whistler waves.
Re: Whats the difference between lightning and an EMP pulse??
Plasma Lover, Thu Jan 29 2009, 04:36AM
Lightning has MUCH greater than 50KVA.
Apparently it has around 1MV, but I've seen more credible-looking websites saying that it may be 100MV.
Lightning also, apparently, can have amperage up to 200KA. 200KA at 1MV = 200,000,000,000VA
(Is that 20 Billi-volt-amps?)
Now just imagine if the website I saw was right and it's 100MV! (2 Trilli-volt-amps?)
Now, that website also says that the empire state building gets struck about twenty times per year. That means 20X 2 Trillivoltamps = 40 Trillivoltamps
Anyways, in one strike, which lasts about 0.2 seconds, you'd expend energy equal to (at its lowest?) 20,000,000,000VA * 0.2s = 4,000,000,000J
Wow. From one weak lightning strike, we can get four billion Joules. And to think that lightning strikes the Earth 6,000 times per minute.
Sounds like a nice power supply, doesn't it? If only we could tap into it.. ...Nikola Tesla would have, had he the money and the life-span.
Plasma Lover, Thu Jan 29 2009, 04:36AM
Our Finest Hour wrote ...
Thanks, I always imagined lightning to have a higher charge than 50Kva
Thanks, I always imagined lightning to have a higher charge than 50Kva
Lightning has MUCH greater than 50KVA.
Apparently it has around 1MV, but I've seen more credible-looking websites saying that it may be 100MV.
Lightning also, apparently, can have amperage up to 200KA. 200KA at 1MV = 200,000,000,000VA
(Is that 20 Billi-volt-amps?)
Now just imagine if the website I saw was right and it's 100MV! (2 Trilli-volt-amps?)
Now, that website also says that the empire state building gets struck about twenty times per year. That means 20X 2 Trillivoltamps = 40 Trillivoltamps
Anyways, in one strike, which lasts about 0.2 seconds, you'd expend energy equal to (at its lowest?) 20,000,000,000VA * 0.2s = 4,000,000,000J
Wow. From one weak lightning strike, we can get four billion Joules. And to think that lightning strikes the Earth 6,000 times per minute.
Sounds like a nice power supply, doesn't it? If only we could tap into it.. ...Nikola Tesla would have, had he the money and the life-span.
Re: Whats the difference between lightning and an EMP pulse??
Marko, Thu Jan 29 2009, 12:36PM
Not really.
He wouldn't.
Marko, Thu Jan 29 2009, 12:36PM
Sounds like a nice power supply, doesn't it?
Not really.
Nikola Tesla would have
He wouldn't.
Re: Whats the difference between lightning and an EMP pulse??
Dr. Dark Current, Thu Jan 29 2009, 01:25PM
Dr. Dark Current, Thu Jan 29 2009, 01:25PM
big5824 wrote ...
because emp's are created with currents in the range of millions of amps, where lightning strikes are only about 50KA.
Actually, your standard lightning will peak at around 10kA.because emp's are created with currents in the range of millions of amps, where lightning strikes are only about 50KA.
Re: Whats the difference between lightning and an EMP pulse??
LutzH, Fri Feb 06 2009, 10:13PM
Ahhh but dont forget lightining is more healthy because its "Organic", just like mercury and uranium :)
LutzH, Fri Feb 06 2009, 10:13PM
Ahhh but dont forget lightining is more healthy because its "Organic", just like mercury and uranium :)
Re: Whats the difference between lightning and an EMP pulse??
Backyard Skunkworks, Fri Feb 06 2009, 11:11PM
Since when have any of those had carbon backbones? They're all all-natural, however.
Backyard Skunkworks, Fri Feb 06 2009, 11:11PM
LutzH wrote ...
Ahhh but dont forget lightining is more healthy because its "Organic", just like mercury and uranium :)
Ahhh but dont forget lightining is more healthy because its "Organic", just like mercury and uranium :)
Since when have any of those had carbon backbones? They're all all-natural, however.
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