Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Dr. Drone, Tue Dec 02 2008, 08:42PM

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
rp181, Tue Dec 02 2008, 11:23PM

Lol dr.spark, every chance you get to show off =)

@finn
Thats awesome. Do those orange things cover the secondary (what are they?) Also, it looks slanted, is the left one shorter?

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Andyman, Tue Dec 02 2008, 11:43PM

Well, showing off for Chris is more like him doing us a favor and posting free eye candy :P I'm glad he does

Anyways, from what I can tell, those are actually the secondary formers. You can see at the base of either the ridges are in the process of being sanded down. But you're right, they do look a bit sideways mounted on that hub.
Those things look AWESOME! Where did you get those, or what were they used for???

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Dr. Drone, Wed Dec 03 2008, 01:02AM

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Wed Dec 03 2008, 06:01PM

All,

The material for the orange pipes are "Ultra" sewer pipe. The ribs are removed on the lower half for the sake of looking like cylinders on vintage combustion engines like:



and of course:

It is a concept coil. The secondary coils are fitted inside this shell.
I did not make it a 45 deg V-Twin like harley and others, but stuck with the classic european 90 degree V-Twin.
Not so much to spite the harley, -it sure has it`s moments

but it would make the sparklength too short.
And this is about sparks, after all. And not the ones exiting the tailpipes of a maladjusted chopper. ;.)

The whole structure is rotated slightly around the crankshaft axis to simulate the looks of the Ducati:

But this was a mistake, really.
The "engine mounts" on the one side got flipped, when I welded the plastic bosses into the crankcase, and I didn`t notice it before taking the picture.
They will be reversed in due course.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Arcstarter, Wed Dec 03 2008, 06:08PM

Looks great!
This is a rather unique project, this is one coil you would want to show the.... everybody.

But one thing.. How the heck are you going to wind the coil with it being ribbed?

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Tom540, Wed Dec 03 2008, 07:27PM


I was going to say the same thing. Haha

Finn,

Looks good what happens if the left coil wants to arc to ground instead of the right coil?

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
aonomus, Wed Dec 03 2008, 09:03PM

And on a similar note, what happens if the torroid of one coil arcs to the secondary of the other, or the two bases of the secondaries start arcing between each other...

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Dr. Drone, Wed Dec 03 2008, 09:15PM

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Wed Dec 03 2008, 10:05PM


Take a look at these twins:



It is a twin, viewed in it`s faraday cage half shell, before it is closed, at which point it looks like this:



The distance between spheres is 500mm, distance from anti corona ring to cage is 130mm.
I use these coils to judge the probability of a strike outside the strong field from +xxxxxxV to -xxxxxxV
Well, that probability is a very small one. You should all build a twin coil system, to enjoy the pleasure of having superiour controll of the discharge path.


The coil shown is one in a series of 2 that I built for the Danfoss Universe Theme Park, along with the big one:





The big one, by the way, is equipped with the novel remotely (by the show controller) operated preakout points, enabling a preprogrammed sequence of lightning bolts, each thrown in 1 of 6 directions spaced 30 degrees apart.

Cheers, Finn Hammer

And yes, All that gold _is_ gold, plated on copper.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Coronafix, Wed Dec 03 2008, 10:14PM

Finn: I take it that the coils will be bipolar and therefore arc to each other. Are you installing the primaries inside the secondaries? I assume this is the case otherwise primaries arcing would be a problem, although there seems to be enough distance there for outer primaries perhaps? Nice work.

Chris: Be a duck man and let it wash, you the man! Where would we be without you? No eyecandy that's for sure.

Tom: Triple posts are highly illegal and punishable by death...I think...I could be wrong on that one.

Edit: Wow Finn, that is some really nice work!! More please?

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Dr. Drone, Wed Dec 03 2008, 11:42PM

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Coronafix, Thu Dec 04 2008, 12:07AM

I wish you would show off some more Finn.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
rp181, Thu Dec 04 2008, 12:16AM

O.o Where these made for yourself or institutions? they look great (shiny =p).

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Dr. H., Thu Dec 04 2008, 07:45AM

Good day guys

Chris - don't buy what they are saying.

You have been helping HV members for years (including me) - for wich I REALLY THANK YOU

Finn - that thing is AMAZING

Hmmmm - can you implement something to look like a spark plug on the torroids ?


Cheers

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Steve Conner, Thu Dec 04 2008, 12:17PM

Ooo, Finn is pimping the Danfoss Universe project! :D

I don't know what drives the twins, but I did the driver circuit and firmware for the big coil: it's very similar to my OLTC2. And the whole thing meets European EMC regulations.

Finn, how are you going to wind the secondaries on your coil? Or to paraphrase Quentin Tarantino, "It's not a Tesla coil baby, it's a chopper"

Dr. Spark, if you really want to impress me, you should mount a DRSSTC in your sidecar and fire it up at a bike show

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Tom540, Thu Dec 04 2008, 05:39PM


That's pretty cool looking. I like all the bling.
Actually, now that I think about it you have a good point. The arcs primary goal is to reach the opposite end of the secondary not ground. Found this out by having a coil upside down close to ground. The arc still went towards the base even though it was further away.


Yes I know I just double posted again but the second post was actually on topic. They're better off separate.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Chris Russell, Fri Dec 05 2008, 12:56AM

Okay, I've deleted one post to attempt to keep things civil. Let's keep it on topic. Any further personal discourse can happen in PMs, or better yet, just forget the whole thing and let it be water under the bridge.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
LithiumLord, Fri Dec 05 2008, 01:51AM

With a bit of deeper thinking this expression might sound both pretty funny and destructive :D

Nice concept, wonder how the finished version will look like. By the way, how are you going to trigger this one - by the same driver for both coils, via a simultanious firing mode or fire them off independantly?

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Fri Dec 05 2008, 10:48AM


Pls. accept my apology for not mentioning off hand. This project had never come true without your groundbreaking brick OLTC.

The coils fit inside the tubes you see. The "cylinders" are 220mmØ inside and the coils are 200mmØ outside.

Btw, the primary coils are now finished rolled, and first acid bath. Material 2.5mm by 45mm.
Resonant with 10µF @ 44kHz

Rather low Q in primary, which is good and bad. Good for this coil, because it is going to drive external loads, so easier to tune.



Also notice nifty litle trigger SIDAC board on Brick

Trigger pulse is looped trough transformer of both bricks, for dual bipolar drive.

Cheers, Finn Hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Tom540, Fri Dec 05 2008, 05:23PM

I cant stop thinking about the gold toploads you have. I'm thinking of having one of the toroids i got from Daniel gold plated now. No more polishing!

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Fri Dec 05 2008, 06:09PM


Why not? It is not_that_ expensive. I think mine cost around 300US to have gold plated. Pretty cool if there is a budget.

Cheers, Finn Hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
rp181, Fri Dec 05 2008, 11:37PM

I thought it was just gold color. Does the gold plating actually help alot?

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Tom540, Sat Dec 06 2008, 02:48AM

Yes the one place I looked didn't have a listed price. 300 is sort of a lot for a small 8 inch toroid. If they could plate my 20inch aluminum for 300 i would totally go for that.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Sun Dec 14 2008, 05:52PM

All,

The primary circuit of the BRISG tends toward the complex, maby that`s why it never caught on.
Here you see the parts before assy`.





And this is what they look like when they are bolted together.
Quite a lot of tin smithin`and plastic weldin`.





Of course, mounting the whole kaboodle inside a cylinder, and aspiring ability to adjust coupling doesn`t simplify things....





And here it is: The primary coil gleefully awaiting the insertion of the secondary....




Cheers, Finn Hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Mads Barnkob, Sun Dec 14 2008, 06:30PM

wow... just wow :)

Its looking so proffesionel, really good job on all the parts!

What about the housing, will the metal or bolt not interfer?

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Hazmatt_(The Underdog), Sun Dec 14 2008, 09:52PM

I love it! I am concerned about your assembly being held up by Nylon though. I'd probably go for some FRP screws.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Mon Dec 15 2008, 10:40AM

Thanks!.
Housing is PVC, bolts are stainless, so I don`t expect any interference.


What`s wrong with Nylon, what is FRP?

Cheers, Finn Hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Tom540, Mon Dec 15 2008, 06:59PM

The nylon is just holding the primary. I think it'll be fine. Looks awesome BTW.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
rp181, Mon Dec 15 2008, 09:37PM

hmm, thought i already said this.
FRP is fiberglass reinforced plastic.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Mon Dec 15 2008, 11:23PM

Nylon has a tensile strength of 6Kg/mm^2, and those 10mm bolts have 48 mm^2 cross section, enabling them to carry 288Kg each, or 864 total.
I think that is ample safety factor.
The primary assy weights in at estimated 10kg max.
Sometimes it pays to do the math, although I tend to design according to the TLAR (That Looks About Right) method.

Cheers, Finn Hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
rp181, Tue Dec 16 2008, 12:02AM

Tensile strength, but not shear strength. You need to see the shear ratings on those threads. Although if it was me, i too would also just try it and see what happens.

Also, Nylon absorbs moisture from the air, changing its dimensions. It probably wont be a problem, although it might matter in the future.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Coronafix, Tue Dec 16 2008, 02:12AM


So what. The shear stress will be 0.6 the permissible stress, and it's still well within safety region.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
ragnar, Tue Dec 16 2008, 05:05AM


Not all Nylon -- Nylon-12 was hydrophobic last time I checked.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Herr Zapp, Tue Dec 16 2008, 09:10PM

Finn -

As usual, your design and execution are world-class.

A question for you about the attachment of the "cylinder mounting flanges" to the "crankcase". It looks like there is a substantial fillet or weld bead all along the junction of these parts. Are the parts secured to each other with adhesive, and this fillet is an external bead of thick adhesive (like RTV silicone or epoxy)? Or are they hot-air welded with a plastic filler rod? Or secured by some other technique?

Your "weld beads" look somewhat similar to the those seen in the plastic housing of Matthias Kallenberger's amazing HV transformers, which sure look like they were hot-air welded.

If you did hot-air weld the parts with a filler rod, how did you get what appears to be such a perfect color match between the housing and the weld bead/filler rod? Or is the apparent color match an optical illusion?

Regards,
Herr Zapp

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Coronafix, Tue Dec 16 2008, 09:27PM

He already mentioned plastic welding.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Herr Zapp, Wed Dec 17 2008, 01:50AM

Coronafix -

Right you are, I missed that one photo caption that mentioned "welding". Still interested in how Finn obtained the color match of the weld bead to the base material .....

Also, you noted that the shear load on the nylon 10mm bolts securing the primary supports was 60% of the permissible stress. Can you provide any details of how you calculated the shear loading on these fasteners? 60% of the permissible load seems high, unless your calcs included some sort of dynamic load factor (e.g. accelerations caused by transportation via truck over a rough road, etc).

Regards,
Herr Zapp

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Wed Dec 17 2008, 06:21AM


Scott,

Thank you for your kind words.

Yes, all plastic is hot air welded, with filler rod.
I also noticed Matthias Kallenberger's work, and realised he could only do it, because he had learned hot air welding too.

It`s not at all hard to do, either.
Just keep the heat gun going right, @310deg celcius, and press 1kg on the filler rod, and it comes along nicely by it self.

Colour match is acheived by using a filler rod of the same colour as the base material, in this case RAL 7011.

But this is all going to get covered up, because after first light, the external parts are going to the car body shop for a covering with "as red as possible", like all proper souped racing engines are.

Cheers, Finn Hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Coronafix, Wed Dec 17 2008, 08:02AM


You are absolutely right, it should have been 0.25 the permissible stress for shear stress rating.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Wed Dec 31 2008, 05:06PM

All,

First light is like giving birth to a dragon, and with the added benefit that it comes out in small pieces at the time.

But here it is:
I had promised it btwn. christmas and new year, so no time for the voltage doubler: With 780 Volts ringdown at 500BPS, it exeeded the spec. with 7 cm @ 147cm discharge.

With this I wish you a Happy New Year.



Cheers, Finn Hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Tom540, Wed Dec 31 2008, 07:11PM

WOW and that with just one BRISG module per side? Oh yeah and did you end up changing your primary?

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Wed Dec 31 2008, 09:37PM


No, just as I showed you all.

And don`t forget, just _one_ of these T-BRISG`s alone did 150cm (@4.5kA ):



Cheers, Finn Hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Tom540, Wed Dec 31 2008, 10:14PM

That's it i'm building a BRISG.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
rp181, Thu Jan 01 2009, 12:09AM

:-O 'nuff said

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Sat Jan 03 2009, 10:21PM

All,
,


V-Twin Popping corn with a limited set of instruments.

Cheers, Finn hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Sun Jan 04 2009, 08:22AM

All,

Sorry, forgot to reload. Thought I`d forgot to post. Those proxy servers are the damnest things.

Finn hammer
_____________

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Myke, Sun Jan 04 2009, 07:46PM

Wow, Really nice job.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Sun Jan 25 2009, 09:24PM

All,

The V-Twin is a combustium engine.....



Cheers, Finn Hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Dennis Rogers, Sun Jan 25 2009, 09:55PM

Slightly OT but wouldn't it be better to plate topload with Ag (silver). It is the most conductive element and I have to think it would be cheaper to plate with than gold. Maybe you chose gold because it doesn't tarnish? Anyway awesome work, very jealous!
Dennis

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Mon Jan 26 2009, 06:10AM


The gold topload plating was for *looks* only.
The lack of tarnish was the main objective, but the associated exclusivism og **gold!** played a part too.

Cheers, Finn Hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Dr. Drone, Mon Jan 26 2009, 04:34PM

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Mon Jan 26 2009, 08:38PM

Thank you for your kind words.

You are right, of course. How can I argue against the master of the LED's. And so many other things.
Only problem getting power @ low voltage up there. Perhaps a couple of turns up there, and a led would do the trick?
On second thought, with 600V/turn, perhaps just make a necklace of plenty many leds around the coil up under the topload....
Damn, the coil is dismantled again already....But I'l have to try that sometime.

Cheers, Finn Hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Mon Feb 09 2009, 07:26PM

Just back from Paris, where I mounted the V-Twin into an installation by Swiss artist Roman Signer.
This is art to those that think so.
Thank you to Kurt Schraner for referring Roman and Jurg to me for this job.
I`l just give you'all some eye candy of the coil, at the moment drawing a pesky waveform, for 7.5 seconds at 2minute intervals, 12 hours per day for the next 70 days, starting 12-02-09, for 52.5 hours of total run time during the exhibition.
The guards are already getting nervous ticks just before each burst, so I fear vandalism more than dielectric breakdown or bonding wire fatigue (those CM600's are pulsed @ 2660Apeak).
This 1st. picture captures the impression that is available to the average joe, viewing the exhibition.




The rest are for you all, the invited l33t. =:-)






























If all goes well, there will be a nice list of usefull performance parameters for the next generation of BRISG coils.

Cheers, Finn Hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Tom540, Mon Feb 09 2009, 07:33PM

Wow that looks great! I can't help but wonder what's with the umbrellas some sort of metaphor? I noticed the whole thing now site with the two secondaries symmetrical.

Keep it up!

-Tom

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Mon Feb 09 2009, 07:36PM


Beats me. But with modern art, It is what it does to you.

Cheers, Finn Hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Tom540, Mon Feb 09 2009, 07:50PM

The coil is definitely an art piece on its own, no need for fancy umbrellas.

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Mon Feb 09 2009, 08:05PM


You may say so, but let's not forget that it is Roman Signer and the umbrella's that got the coils into the Palais de Tokio, not the other way round.

Cheers, Finn Hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
GeordieBoy, Mon Feb 09 2009, 10:46PM

I like it. I think it looks really sinister with the sparks in the space between two hovering black umbrellas! I'm not surprised that is spooks the security staff!

From a scientific point of view it's cool how the toroids and the feed wires don't break out, only the tips of the two umbrellas. It's also good that the HV doesn't track over the surface of the cords up to the roof that the umbrellas are hanging from.

-Richie,

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Finn Hammer, Tue Feb 10 2009, 07:15AM

They were able to handle the looks allright. But the sound @100dB....
This is a function of pouring excessive amounts of power into the arc. During inithial tests, the nylon fishing line would melt due to corona tracking.
When power was increased, resistance of the arc channel dropped, so that it became the preferred path of discharge.
At least that`s how I see it.
The museum staff requested that I find out how to make the display quieter, but no matter what I did: pulse the arc with short pulses, but still connecting: Tracking was the immediate result, and umbrella was hanging in one cord.

Cheers, Finnn Hammer

Re: The Hammertone T-BRISG V-Twin (move over, Orange county)
Mathias, Tue Feb 10 2009, 08:40AM

Why not make some large plexi sealed tube with electrodes on both ends if "filled" with some low pressure gas (or mix)
that can greatly supress the sound of the discharge also the spark length could be way longer

Btw: beautiful work!