Energy loss within the secondary.
Ken M., Wed Apr 25 2007, 11:24PMTo start off like most of the coilers here and anywhere else, I'm trying to get the longest arcs I can with what I have. I thought messing around with the top load would make some difference and it does, with top load I get 1\2" arc to air from a 6" breakout point, without a top load I am getting 1\4" to air. While testing the coil with the top load off I noticed the spot where the tip of the secondaries winding goes into the form and then goes up to connect to the cap. Freaaking out think my coil is arcing over on the inside, I removed the cap and my relief there was no arcing goin on, however the 2-4" of wire that was on the inside is discharging and producing ozone and corona on the inside of the secondary form. Now could this be robbing me of energy that could potentially be increasing my spark length?
Heres a pic that I photo shopped to outline some stuff.
Re: Energy loss within the secondary.
Tom540, Wed Apr 25 2007, 11:59PM
Hmm .I think you should have maybe wound all the way to the top leaving about a half inch left or just cut the tube about a half inche above the last turn. It seems like the closer your topload is to the secondary the lower the frequency will be, by a small amount. You could try just moving the wire to the outside instead of going through a hole. Any sharp turns in that wire are gonna make it easy for corona to break out.
Tom540, Wed Apr 25 2007, 11:59PM
Hmm .I think you should have maybe wound all the way to the top leaving about a half inch left or just cut the tube about a half inche above the last turn. It seems like the closer your topload is to the secondary the lower the frequency will be, by a small amount. You could try just moving the wire to the outside instead of going through a hole. Any sharp turns in that wire are gonna make it easy for corona to break out.
Re: Energy loss within the secondary.
CT2, Thu Apr 26 2007, 12:01AM
I think that corona anywhere is power lost that could potentionaly go to increasing spark length, so I would say that yes you are loosing power, how much though I'm not sure. Is there any reason that your topload is 7" away from the top turn of the secondary? I can't see how that would be of any benefit; all the coils I have built have the top turn as close to the topload as possible.
CT2, Thu Apr 26 2007, 12:01AM
I think that corona anywhere is power lost that could potentionaly go to increasing spark length, so I would say that yes you are loosing power, how much though I'm not sure. Is there any reason that your topload is 7" away from the top turn of the secondary? I can't see how that would be of any benefit; all the coils I have built have the top turn as close to the topload as possible.
Re: Energy loss within the secondary.
Ken M., Thu Apr 26 2007, 12:09AM
The toploads 7" away because I knew the general guild line for a secondary is a ratio of 1:4 D\H and my Pipe was 13" long and since I knew the caps (Pvc covers) were 1" a peice so that would mean I would need a total length of 10"1" at top and bottom to prevent internal arcing and so that way i wasn't crushing the wire, the extra 3" is because I wasn't able to cut the pipe at the time.
Ken M., Thu Apr 26 2007, 12:09AM
The toploads 7" away because I knew the general guild line for a secondary is a ratio of 1:4 D\H and my Pipe was 13" long and since I knew the caps (Pvc covers) were 1" a peice so that would mean I would need a total length of 10"1" at top and bottom to prevent internal arcing and so that way i wasn't crushing the wire, the extra 3" is because I wasn't able to cut the pipe at the time.
Re: Energy loss within the secondary.
HV Enthusiast, Thu Apr 26 2007, 12:26AM
Compared to the entire system, secondary loss is practically negligible to what is loss on the primary side (i.e. spark gap, etc...)
HV Enthusiast, Thu Apr 26 2007, 12:26AM
Compared to the entire system, secondary loss is practically negligible to what is loss on the primary side (i.e. spark gap, etc...)
Re: Energy loss within the secondary.
CT2, Thu Apr 26 2007, 12:32AM
Well considering your only getting 1/2" streamers I don't think you need to worry about it arcing from the top to bottom, I agree with Tom540 that you should have wound it all the way to the top. Also with regards to what EVR said is very true, if your only gettign 1/2" streamers than I would worry about enhancing other parts of the coil, the secondary loss wouldnt be your problem (at the moment).
CT2, Thu Apr 26 2007, 12:32AM
Well considering your only getting 1/2" streamers I don't think you need to worry about it arcing from the top to bottom, I agree with Tom540 that you should have wound it all the way to the top. Also with regards to what EVR said is very true, if your only gettign 1/2" streamers than I would worry about enhancing other parts of the coil, the secondary loss wouldnt be your problem (at the moment).
Re: Energy loss within the secondary.
Ken M., Thu Apr 26 2007, 01:02AM
Well I went ahead and cut some of the excess pvc off, so now I only have about 2-3" of empty PVC...Only because I couldn't get much closer without damaging the upper windings on the secondary, Now before I fidget wit hthe rest of the primary stuff, I decided to see if my coil got warm, since previously I had wanted to see how long the system would run and so I turned it on last week and left for about 2 1\2 hours and the secondary just got noticably warm to the touch I'd say a few degrees warmer then room temp, but now the secondary got pretty warm after about 1hour of on off running with the moddified secondary. On ward to primary tuning...ALthough I'm not sure what to adjust 1st excluding input power and voltage. =S
Ken M., Thu Apr 26 2007, 01:02AM
Well I went ahead and cut some of the excess pvc off, so now I only have about 2-3" of empty PVC...Only because I couldn't get much closer without damaging the upper windings on the secondary, Now before I fidget wit hthe rest of the primary stuff, I decided to see if my coil got warm, since previously I had wanted to see how long the system would run and so I turned it on last week and left for about 2 1\2 hours and the secondary just got noticably warm to the touch I'd say a few degrees warmer then room temp, but now the secondary got pretty warm after about 1hour of on off running with the moddified secondary. On ward to primary tuning...ALthough I'm not sure what to adjust 1st excluding input power and voltage. =S
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