Applications
uzzors2k, Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:57PMI see the old application system is removed, just as well for the first week. Is this permanent though, or just put off until the site is running smoothly and all the old members are registered?
Because I felt the application system really filtered out those who didn't have anything to contribute or would just cause trouble. ( Or turn our lovely 4hv into
)Re: Applications
Chris Russell, Thu Feb 09 2006, 10:48PM
Yes, it is disabled for now. The application process just turned out to be too slow and too unreliable -- we had plenty of problems with people who figured they were free to do as they pleased once their application was approved. It did also scare away some good people who might have joined, but found the idea of having their "forum-worthiness" judged by other people repulsive.
In the long term, we are looking to replace it with a quiz, rather than an application. Done properly, it should have roughly the same asshat-discouraging power of the application system. Further, since at least part of the quiz will focus on board rules and appropriate forum behavior, we will be in a better position to suspend or ban users who do break rules.
In the short term, everyone is expected to follow the rules. We have plenty of moderators, and we will be watching for bad behavior especially closely while this forum is in its infancy.
Chris Russell, Thu Feb 09 2006, 10:48PM
Yes, it is disabled for now. The application process just turned out to be too slow and too unreliable -- we had plenty of problems with people who figured they were free to do as they pleased once their application was approved. It did also scare away some good people who might have joined, but found the idea of having their "forum-worthiness" judged by other people repulsive.
In the long term, we are looking to replace it with a quiz, rather than an application. Done properly, it should have roughly the same asshat-discouraging power of the application system. Further, since at least part of the quiz will focus on board rules and appropriate forum behavior, we will be in a better position to suspend or ban users who do break rules.
In the short term, everyone is expected to follow the rules. We have plenty of moderators, and we will be watching for bad behavior especially closely while this forum is in its infancy.
Re: Applications
HV Enthusiast, Fri Feb 10 2006, 12:12AM
Cool. A quiz is a good idea. At least that would force the applicant to go over the rules at least once.
Dan
HV Enthusiast, Fri Feb 10 2006, 12:12AM
Cool. A quiz is a good idea. At least that would force the applicant to go over the rules at least once.
Dan
Re: Applications
..., Fri Feb 10 2006, 12:26AM
One thing I have seen work quite well is this:
The user registers
He can post in any thread/create a new one, BUT his first 5 posts do not show up until a mod okays them
If the posts have problems (broken rules or whatever) the posts do not show up and the user is warned/banned
After the first 5 posts he is a normal member and the posts show up normally
Seems like we have enough mods on the forum that we can handle reading the first 5 posts a new member makes.
Not sure if the current software supports that though...
The quiz idea sound like something a lot of people we don't want could easily come up with the answers to, especially if it the same quiz each time. It would definitely stop the bots and most people just looking to mess things up though.
..., Fri Feb 10 2006, 12:26AM
One thing I have seen work quite well is this:
The user registers
He can post in any thread/create a new one, BUT his first 5 posts do not show up until a mod okays them
If the posts have problems (broken rules or whatever) the posts do not show up and the user is warned/banned
After the first 5 posts he is a normal member and the posts show up normally
Seems like we have enough mods on the forum that we can handle reading the first 5 posts a new member makes.
Not sure if the current software supports that though...
The quiz idea sound like something a lot of people we don't want could easily come up with the answers to, especially if it the same quiz each time. It would definitely stop the bots and most people just looking to mess things up though.
Re: Applications
Dave Marshall, Fri Feb 10 2006, 01:48AM
The trouble with that is, there are times when we might have 15 or 20 new applicants a week. Instead of the single application post we had to approve with the old system, we'd have 5 times as much traffic to deal with. I think that might work well in a smaller group, but when our membership approaches 1000 people, its just not realistic.
Dave
Dave Marshall, Fri Feb 10 2006, 01:48AM
The trouble with that is, there are times when we might have 15 or 20 new applicants a week. Instead of the single application post we had to approve with the old system, we'd have 5 times as much traffic to deal with. I think that might work well in a smaller group, but when our membership approaches 1000 people, its just not realistic.
Dave
Re: Applications
..., Fri Feb 10 2006, 02:47AM
seems to work well with the diyaudio forum with almost 50k members...
I will admit that a simple no-mod-intervention system would probably be superior considering the no work required for it work...
..., Fri Feb 10 2006, 02:47AM
seems to work well with the diyaudio forum with almost 50k members...
I will admit that a simple no-mod-intervention system would probably be superior considering the no work required for it work...
Re: Applications
Chris Russell, Fri Feb 10 2006, 04:41AM
The quiz approach is by no means perfect. The basic idea is to require the user to look at the rules, and provide us with some proof that he or she did so, by answering some questions. Any kind of sane, rational human being will say "well, I will need to know these rules anyway, I may as well read the page of text so I can answer these." Only a complete asshat would hit google or some other resource for answers that are quite easily found right in the rules, and this is the same sort of person that is going to end up banned, with all their posts deleted.
With a quiz in place, we can take it as a given that everyone has read the rules. This will allow us to quickly progress to further steps in the moderation process, and hopefully will eliminate the need to admonish users to "read the rules" constantly.
Chris Russell, Fri Feb 10 2006, 04:41AM
The quiz approach is by no means perfect. The basic idea is to require the user to look at the rules, and provide us with some proof that he or she did so, by answering some questions. Any kind of sane, rational human being will say "well, I will need to know these rules anyway, I may as well read the page of text so I can answer these." Only a complete asshat would hit google or some other resource for answers that are quite easily found right in the rules, and this is the same sort of person that is going to end up banned, with all their posts deleted.
With a quiz in place, we can take it as a given that everyone has read the rules. This will allow us to quickly progress to further steps in the moderation process, and hopefully will eliminate the need to admonish users to "read the rules" constantly.
Re: Applications
Psyko, Fri Feb 10 2006, 10:53PM
I think that the application process was one of the BEST idea of the old forum. I have never seen it elsewere, and was a little bit proud of it "yeah, see, in My forum, you need to be accepted, no noobs are allowed
" . And yes, it is a little bit repulsive, just enough to keep (not really interrested in HV) guys away. Actually, I have waited a long time before making my application . And this is the good point : it forces you to read a lot before applying, just to make sure that THIS forum belongs the best to what you are FOND OF. I felt excitement when writing my application: it forces you to show to the other members that you are really fond of science, and, considering that application is archived, it forces to be very carefull ( an even better idea would have been to link the application with the profile ). Application process also keeps number of members low (if you are really interrested, you fill the wedding contract ). And the last point : when I was approved, I felt the strong feeling of beeing ONE member of THE COMMUNITY. yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh, I have been accepted by HV LORDS, and now, I am one of them 
.
Psyko, Fri Feb 10 2006, 10:53PM
I think that the application process was one of the BEST idea of the old forum. I have never seen it elsewere, and was a little bit proud of it "yeah, see, in My forum, you need to be accepted, no noobs are allowed
" . And yes, it is a little bit repulsive, just enough to keep (not really interrested in HV) guys away. Actually, I have waited a long time before making my application . And this is the good point : it forces you to read a lot before applying, just to make sure that THIS forum belongs the best to what you are FOND OF. I felt excitement when writing my application: it forces you to show to the other members that you are really fond of science, and, considering that application is archived, it forces to be very carefull ( an even better idea would have been to link the application with the profile ). Application process also keeps number of members low (if you are really interrested, you fill the wedding contract ). And the last point : when I was approved, I felt the strong feeling of beeing ONE member of THE COMMUNITY. yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh, I have been accepted by HV LORDS, and now, I am one of them . Re: Applications
Dr. Shark, Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:31AM
I agree 100% on that, the application process was definitely a good thing. I guess what went wrong with it was that a lot of people got accepted althogh they should not have been (like me :P ). It really is not that hard to figure out the maturity of a person from his application, and if she/he already has some HV experience. This may sound harsh, but in my oppinion it would be better only to accept people who can really contribute something, I mean, everyone can _read_ the forum anyway. I have left several forums in the past just because they got flooded with noobs, and it would be really sad if that happened with 4HV.
Dr. Shark, Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:31AM
I agree 100% on that, the application process was definitely a good thing. I guess what went wrong with it was that a lot of people got accepted althogh they should not have been (like me :P ). It really is not that hard to figure out the maturity of a person from his application, and if she/he already has some HV experience. This may sound harsh, but in my oppinion it would be better only to accept people who can really contribute something, I mean, everyone can _read_ the forum anyway. I have left several forums in the past just because they got flooded with noobs, and it would be really sad if that happened with 4HV.
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