Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Chris Russell, Thu Nov 23 2006, 05:15AMHello all,
With the near-completion of my magnetic loop antenna project, I wonder if any of the hams and short wave listeners out there would be interested in doing some beacon reception. Simply put, I would beacon my identification and a short message, perhaps some telemetry, using a low-power mode like slow-hell or QRSS. This would go on for 24 hours or so, and then people could report what they did or didn't receive. Recognition on the front page of 4hv.org and my thanks would go out to everyone who participates.
The only equipment needed would be a computer with a sound card running Windows or Linux, a relatively stable receiver capable of sideband reception from 14.0 to 14.1MHz or from 10.1 to 10.15MHz, a way to interface the receiver audio to your computer's line-in or mic jack, and a program like argo (
), or Spectrum Lab ( ). I would gladly provide assistance to anyone who needs technical help on getting any of the above set up. Of course, I'd also give at least a week or two of warning, so that nobody misses it.If you're interested, please post here and let me know. I hope there is someone out there that's at least curious about low power long range communications.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
rev, Thu Nov 23 2006, 10:45AM
i would gladly play if i can get a receiver built in time.
i'm also interested in satellite comm. any help on that would be greatly appreciated.
rev, Thu Nov 23 2006, 10:45AM
i would gladly play if i can get a receiver built in time.
i'm also interested in satellite comm. any help on that would be greatly appreciated.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Steve Conner, Thu Nov 23 2006, 11:27AM
Count me in!
I wonder if there's a way to serve the Spectrum Lab screen as a web page, so people can see what we're receiving in real time? *edit* yay there is!
Steve Conner, Thu Nov 23 2006, 11:27AM
Count me in!
I wonder if there's a way to serve the Spectrum Lab screen as a web page, so people can see what we're receiving in real time? *edit* yay there is!Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Thu Nov 23 2006, 07:43PM
I would love to participate. Thats if I have the crystals with those frequencies.
ShawnLG, Thu Nov 23 2006, 07:43PM
I would love to participate. Thats if I have the crystals with those frequencies.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Chris Russell, Thu Nov 23 2006, 07:46PM
rev, the key here is "relatively stable." Unless you're doing a PLL VFO, you will likely not have enough stability. Satellite communications is a whole other ball of wax. Dave Marshall has much more experience in that field than I do. But that belongs in another thread.
Hooray, Conner is on board! I know you use Spectrum Lab, so there are all sorts of fun possibilities there. Being able to look at your receiver's output into speclab in realtime would be at least twelve kinds of awesome. If your receiver is stable enough to work with QRSS30, 5W should lead to fairly reliable communications on 30M.
Any other takers?
Chris Russell, Thu Nov 23 2006, 07:46PM
rev, the key here is "relatively stable." Unless you're doing a PLL VFO, you will likely not have enough stability. Satellite communications is a whole other ball of wax. Dave Marshall has much more experience in that field than I do. But that belongs in another thread.
Hooray, Conner is on board! I know you use Spectrum Lab, so there are all sorts of fun possibilities there. Being able to look at your receiver's output into speclab in realtime would be at least twelve kinds of awesome. If your receiver is stable enough to work with QRSS30, 5W should lead to fairly reliable communications on 30M.
Any other takers?
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Fri Nov 24 2006, 01:18AM
Will my reciver be good enuff? The mixer output would be fed into the sound input instead.
EDIT: I looked through my crystal collection and I do not have any within those ham bands. Is there anything I can do?
[Edit: Image size...]
ShawnLG, Fri Nov 24 2006, 01:18AM
Will my reciver be good enuff? The mixer output would be fed into the sound input instead.
EDIT: I looked through my crystal collection and I do not have any within those ham bands. Is there anything I can do?
[Edit: Image size...]
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Steve Conner, Fri Nov 24 2006, 11:55AM
Yup, get more crystals
I'm sure the frequency accuracy will be good enough, especially since the computer sucks in a ~20kHz slice of spectrum, so you would see our transmission even if it was several kHz away. Sensitivity may be pretty good too, since the Spectrum Lab or Argo software uses pretty high-powered DSP to tell signals apart from noise. (Still, I'd take the soundcard feed from after the 2-transistor audio amp section, and try to run the soundcard in 24-bit mode if it supports it.)
The areas where it might *not* be good enough are short-term stability and selectivity. If the frequency jitters and jumps around due to noise getting into the oscillator, it could blur out the QRSS signal you're trying to see. And stronger unwanted signals at totally different frequencies might deafen it, especially since it'll have a very strong image response. The LC thingo in the red box would help that a lot by limiting the bandwidth of crud that can get into the RF amp.
BTW: For those who're not sure, QRSS means "Really slow morse code" generated by computer. QRS is the radio Q-code for "Please send slower".
Steve Conner, Fri Nov 24 2006, 11:55AM
Yup, get more crystals
I'm sure the frequency accuracy will be good enough, especially since the computer sucks in a ~20kHz slice of spectrum, so you would see our transmission even if it was several kHz away. Sensitivity may be pretty good too, since the Spectrum Lab or Argo software uses pretty high-powered DSP to tell signals apart from noise. (Still, I'd take the soundcard feed from after the 2-transistor audio amp section, and try to run the soundcard in 24-bit mode if it supports it.)
The areas where it might *not* be good enough are short-term stability and selectivity. If the frequency jitters and jumps around due to noise getting into the oscillator, it could blur out the QRSS signal you're trying to see. And stronger unwanted signals at totally different frequencies might deafen it, especially since it'll have a very strong image response. The LC thingo in the red box would help that a lot by limiting the bandwidth of crud that can get into the RF amp.
BTW: For those who're not sure, QRSS means "Really slow morse code" generated by computer. QRS is the radio Q-code for "Please send slower".
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ragnar, Fri Nov 24 2006, 12:04PM
I'll see if I can get a rig or amplifier of some description going. =)
ragnar, Fri Nov 24 2006, 12:04PM
I'll see if I can get a rig or amplifier of some description going. =)
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
WaveRider, Fri Nov 24 2006, 01:24PM
I have a couple of Analog devices AD9835 DDS chips that I'm dying to play with (0.04Hz-25MHz output).. This could be an opportunity to make a frequency agile HF receiver.. Just gotta find the time, given work and other projects.
When will you start your transmissions?
WaveRider, Fri Nov 24 2006, 01:24PM
I have a couple of Analog devices AD9835 DDS chips that I'm dying to play with (0.04Hz-25MHz output).. This could be an opportunity to make a frequency agile HF receiver.. Just gotta find the time, given work and other projects.
When will you start your transmissions?
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Avalanche, Fri Nov 24 2006, 01:28PM
I'd love to have a go at this, but again I'd need to build a reciever...
I did a bit of searching, would this be a good reciever? If so I'll probably give it a go, but it looks like obtaining the right crystals might be a problem...
Avalanche, Fri Nov 24 2006, 01:28PM
I'd love to have a go at this, but again I'd need to build a reciever...
I did a bit of searching, would this be a good reciever? If so I'll probably give it a go, but it looks like obtaining the right crystals might be a problem...
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Dave Marshall, Fri Nov 24 2006, 02:39PM
Chris Russell has a source for programmable oscillator modules that are sufficiently stable enough.
All it requires is some filtering to clean up the output of the oscillator, and you're set.
It should be noted that the receivers for QRSS/Slow Heil have to be extremely stable. Even a +/- 3Hz shift would keep you from receiving effectively.
I'm definitely interested in listening in, and I'm seriously considering my own beacon as well.
Dave
Dave Marshall, Fri Nov 24 2006, 02:39PM
Chris Russell has a source for programmable oscillator modules that are sufficiently stable enough.
All it requires is some filtering to clean up the output of the oscillator, and you're set.
It should be noted that the receivers for QRSS/Slow Heil have to be extremely stable. Even a +/- 3Hz shift would keep you from receiving effectively.
I'm definitely interested in listening in, and I'm seriously considering my own beacon as well.
Dave
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Steve Conner, Fri Nov 24 2006, 11:34PM
Hi guys
I managed to set up my old computer with Spectrum Lab and a decent sound card, and have it upload a screenshot of the Spectrum Lab waterfall plot to my web server every 30 seconds. So with any luck, anyone with a web browser can see what I'm receiving as it comes in. If you've got a transmitter you might even be able to see your own signal appear.
I just ran it for a few hours as a test, and I still need to hook it to the radio, but so far it looks good
Steve Conner, Fri Nov 24 2006, 11:34PM
Hi guys
I managed to set up my old computer with Spectrum Lab and a decent sound card, and have it upload a screenshot of the Spectrum Lab waterfall plot to my web server every 30 seconds. So with any luck, anyone with a web browser can see what I'm receiving as it comes in. If you've got a transmitter you might even be able to see your own signal appear.
I just ran it for a few hours as a test, and I still need to hook it to the radio, but so far it looks good
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Chris Russell, Sat Nov 25 2006, 02:43AM
Excellent, glad to see there's some interest!
Avalanche: That looks excellent. I would prefer to stick to 30m anyway, so you shouldn't need to even change any values. If you wanted to use the mic line of your sound card, you could even leave out the op-amp and just sample the output from the mixer directly. The important thing is stability. You're going to want to make sure the circuit is enclosed in a case that's going to provide electrical and thermal shielding. In fact, if you were really insane, you could probably submerge the whole thing in oil, to ensure that the temperature only changes very slowly.
WaveRider: I don't have a plan for any particular time yet, just when I have enough interested people. I can certainly run the test again if it turns out that there's anyone interested who missed out.
Anyone who doesn't have a receiver will probably want to look at the circuit that Avalanche linked to, unless you have some specific plans already. I am planning on operating right around 10.141MHz, so a 10.139 or 10.140MHz crystal is what you'll want (causing my signal to appear at either 2khz or 1khz on the output, respectively). You could also replace it with an SG-8002 programmable oscillator, available at Digikey. Specifically, you'll want this part number: SG-8002DC-PHB-ND, and specify 10.139MHz in the comments. They're $5.15 each, and since there's a $5 charge on orders less than $25, it would be smart to either do a bulk buy with someone, or order a fistful for various frequencies -- they're damn useful.
If anyone is *definitely* interested in going this route, and *promises* to complete the project and listen for my signal, I have two SG-8002 modules that will be sent free via postal mail. Just PM me your mailing address and I'll get it in the mail ASAP. One is 10.135MHz, one is 10.140MHz. The 10.135MHz one will work fine, but my signal will appear at 6khz, so the penalty is that you'll have to use a higher sampling rate on your sound card, thus requiring more computing power. The difference isn't huge, but it's something to think about if you're using a computer that runs at less than, say, 500MHz.
Chris Russell, Sat Nov 25 2006, 02:43AM
Excellent, glad to see there's some interest!
Avalanche: That looks excellent. I would prefer to stick to 30m anyway, so you shouldn't need to even change any values. If you wanted to use the mic line of your sound card, you could even leave out the op-amp and just sample the output from the mixer directly. The important thing is stability. You're going to want to make sure the circuit is enclosed in a case that's going to provide electrical and thermal shielding. In fact, if you were really insane, you could probably submerge the whole thing in oil, to ensure that the temperature only changes very slowly.
WaveRider: I don't have a plan for any particular time yet, just when I have enough interested people. I can certainly run the test again if it turns out that there's anyone interested who missed out.
Anyone who doesn't have a receiver will probably want to look at the circuit that Avalanche linked to, unless you have some specific plans already. I am planning on operating right around 10.141MHz, so a 10.139 or 10.140MHz crystal is what you'll want (causing my signal to appear at either 2khz or 1khz on the output, respectively). You could also replace it with an SG-8002 programmable oscillator, available at Digikey. Specifically, you'll want this part number: SG-8002DC-PHB-ND, and specify 10.139MHz in the comments. They're $5.15 each, and since there's a $5 charge on orders less than $25, it would be smart to either do a bulk buy with someone, or order a fistful for various frequencies -- they're damn useful.
If anyone is *definitely* interested in going this route, and *promises* to complete the project and listen for my signal, I have two SG-8002 modules that will be sent free via postal mail. Just PM me your mailing address and I'll get it in the mail ASAP. One is 10.135MHz, one is 10.140MHz. The 10.135MHz one will work fine, but my signal will appear at 6khz, so the penalty is that you'll have to use a higher sampling rate on your sound card, thus requiring more computing power. The difference isn't huge, but it's something to think about if you're using a computer that runs at less than, say, 500MHz.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Sat Nov 25 2006, 06:21AM
What electronic equipment would most likley have these crystals?
ShawnLG, Sat Nov 25 2006, 06:21AM
What electronic equipment would most likley have these crystals?
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Dave Marshall, Sat Nov 25 2006, 07:13AM
I have yet to stumble on a useful crystal in a common electronic appliance that fell within a ham radio band. I would imagine thats largely because hams are more likely than most other RF spectrum users to experience interference from such devices. Most crystals I've seen in the 10Mhz range are well above the 30m ham band, or on the very low fringe, between 10 and 10.1Mhz.
You can sometimes find the QRP calling frequency crystal at 10.130Mhz, but those programmable oscillators are really the most practical solution.
Dave
Dave Marshall, Sat Nov 25 2006, 07:13AM
I have yet to stumble on a useful crystal in a common electronic appliance that fell within a ham radio band. I would imagine thats largely because hams are more likely than most other RF spectrum users to experience interference from such devices. Most crystals I've seen in the 10Mhz range are well above the 30m ham band, or on the very low fringe, between 10 and 10.1Mhz.
You can sometimes find the QRP calling frequency crystal at 10.130Mhz, but those programmable oscillators are really the most practical solution.
Dave
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Steve Conner, Sat Nov 25 2006, 10:15PM
The only ones I can think of even vaguely ham-related are the NTSC colour burst (3.579MHz) found in many VCRs and games consoles (basically anything with a composite video output) and the old IBM PC bus clock (14.318MHz) that still appears in a lot of PC motherboards and expansion cards.
If Chris's transmission is a success, and I guess even if it isn't, I'm up for trying another one myself, so you guys can try tuning into that. I have a 100 watt rig and a 33' dipole in the attic, and so far I've not been able to get signals into the US, but some of our European members might be able to get it. Or maybe it'll finally make it across the pond by the magic of DSP
Steve Conner, Sat Nov 25 2006, 10:15PM
The only ones I can think of even vaguely ham-related are the NTSC colour burst (3.579MHz) found in many VCRs and games consoles (basically anything with a composite video output) and the old IBM PC bus clock (14.318MHz) that still appears in a lot of PC motherboards and expansion cards.
If Chris's transmission is a success, and I guess even if it isn't, I'm up for trying another one myself, so you guys can try tuning into that. I have a 100 watt rig and a 33' dipole in the attic, and so far I've not been able to get signals into the US, but some of our European members might be able to get it. Or maybe it'll finally make it across the pond by the magic of DSP
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Avalanche, Sat Nov 25 2006, 10:59PM
As for crystals, I remember reading something on the net a few years ago describing a method by which crystals could be 'doped' to reduce the frequency on which they operate.
It was something along the lines of: cut open the can, use the ink from a permanent marker(?) to add impurity to the crystal, then solder the can up again (using pieces of copper clad) when it is nearer your required frequency. However, I cannot find the article. I just wondered if anyone else had heard of this and if it would be worth trying. I don't know how good the temperature stability would be with the added impurities, that would be a bigger problem than the crystal being off-frequency by a few Khz.
I have a bag of 10.240Mhz crystals on my eBay watch list, so if I win them i'll probably give it a go.
Avalanche, Sat Nov 25 2006, 10:59PM
As for crystals, I remember reading something on the net a few years ago describing a method by which crystals could be 'doped' to reduce the frequency on which they operate.
It was something along the lines of: cut open the can, use the ink from a permanent marker(?) to add impurity to the crystal, then solder the can up again (using pieces of copper clad) when it is nearer your required frequency. However, I cannot find the article. I just wondered if anyone else had heard of this and if it would be worth trying. I don't know how good the temperature stability would be with the added impurities, that would be a bigger problem than the crystal being off-frequency by a few Khz.
I have a bag of 10.240Mhz crystals on my eBay watch list, so if I win them i'll probably give it a go.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Marko, Sat Nov 25 2006, 11:08PM
I'm completely lost in this thing, but, regardign crystals, 3.57Mhz one can also be found in old telephones (I have some of them here.)
You could probably change crystal's frequency by just dropping something on it, like superglue (caring not to bind it to case) wich would elongate it and lower the frequency; but I really doubt you can get something precise that way!
Marko, Sat Nov 25 2006, 11:08PM
I'm completely lost in this thing, but, regardign crystals, 3.57Mhz one can also be found in old telephones (I have some of them here.)
You could probably change crystal's frequency by just dropping something on it, like superglue (caring not to bind it to case) wich would elongate it and lower the frequency; but I really doubt you can get something precise that way!
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Sun Nov 26 2006, 01:51AM
I did find two of my crystals 18.1Mhz and 7.966Mhz when mixed together would give me 10.134Mhz. This would require much more circuitry.
UPDATE:
I have found a better crystal being 20.2752Mhz. When the frequency divided, this would give me 10.1376Mhz. So when Chris transmit on 10.141Mhz. I should see him around 3400Hz on spectran.
I am ready for contact!
Is it normal to hear interferance from TV on this frequency? It sounds like the RF from the TV video driver.
ShawnLG, Sun Nov 26 2006, 01:51AM
I did find two of my crystals 18.1Mhz and 7.966Mhz when mixed together would give me 10.134Mhz. This would require much more circuitry.
UPDATE:
I have found a better crystal being 20.2752Mhz. When the frequency divided, this would give me 10.1376Mhz. So when Chris transmit on 10.141Mhz. I should see him around 3400Hz on spectran.
I am ready for contact!
Is it normal to hear interferance from TV on this frequency? It sounds like the RF from the TV video driver.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Chris Russell, Wed Nov 29 2006, 10:01PM
ShawnLG, that looks perfect. Just remember that you'll want some thermal insulation there, too.
***UPDATE***
The first beacon test will be Sunday, December 3rd. I will start transmitting at 1200 UTC (0700 EST, 0400 PST) and keep it up for 24 hours, barring any technical difficulties. Transmissions will be centered on 10.141MHz, and will be sent in QRSS10 mode. Message will be in three parts: chirped-hell, dual frequency cw, and standard cw. It will loop every 30 minutes.
Note that if conditions are very poor, but not terrible, you may not see the chirped-hell part of the message, but will still be able to copy the cw and dfcw portions. So don't despair or start hunting around right away; wait at least ten minutes before concluding that you're not receiving anything. After ten minutes it's safe to either reposition your antenna, or hunt up and down the band for the signal. If you're still not getting anything, try back later, and hopefully band conditions will have improved. If you're able, leaving your program running, taking screencaps, would be a good idea, in case you can't be near the receiver when band conditions do improve.
I will transmit a second message later on this month, if there's anyone who is interested but isn't going to be ready with such short notice.
For those who want to know what the signal will look like, or for those who want the fun of trying to receive the beacon but don't have a radio, I'm attaching an mp3 with a message similar to the one I'll be transmitting. I've buried it under enough white noise to simulate poor band conditions, but your software should be able to recover it if you're going to have any hope of recovering the actual beacon. Please post your screencaps and/or results here.
]1164837714_1_FT18313_4hv_beacon.mp3[/file]
Chris Russell, Wed Nov 29 2006, 10:01PM
ShawnLG, that looks perfect. Just remember that you'll want some thermal insulation there, too.
***UPDATE***
The first beacon test will be Sunday, December 3rd. I will start transmitting at 1200 UTC (0700 EST, 0400 PST) and keep it up for 24 hours, barring any technical difficulties. Transmissions will be centered on 10.141MHz, and will be sent in QRSS10 mode. Message will be in three parts: chirped-hell, dual frequency cw, and standard cw. It will loop every 30 minutes.
Note that if conditions are very poor, but not terrible, you may not see the chirped-hell part of the message, but will still be able to copy the cw and dfcw portions. So don't despair or start hunting around right away; wait at least ten minutes before concluding that you're not receiving anything. After ten minutes it's safe to either reposition your antenna, or hunt up and down the band for the signal. If you're still not getting anything, try back later, and hopefully band conditions will have improved. If you're able, leaving your program running, taking screencaps, would be a good idea, in case you can't be near the receiver when band conditions do improve.
I will transmit a second message later on this month, if there's anyone who is interested but isn't going to be ready with such short notice.
For those who want to know what the signal will look like, or for those who want the fun of trying to receive the beacon but don't have a radio, I'm attaching an mp3 with a message similar to the one I'll be transmitting. I've buried it under enough white noise to simulate poor band conditions, but your software should be able to recover it if you're going to have any hope of recovering the actual beacon.
Please post your screencaps and/or results here.]1164837714_1_FT18313_4hv_beacon.mp3[/file]
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Avalanche, Wed Nov 29 2006, 11:49PM
well I've just won 100 crystals that are 99Khz too high, so if they arrive in time I'll try knocking them down by a few tens of khz, if that fails then I'll just make up a normal oscillator as stable as I can possibly get it... Either way I'll definitely be watching out for your signal, but I can't guarantee much judging by what I have now.
Avalanche, Wed Nov 29 2006, 11:49PM
well I've just won 100 crystals that are 99Khz too high, so if they arrive in time I'll try knocking them down by a few tens of khz, if that fails then I'll just make up a normal oscillator as stable as I can possibly get it... Either way I'll definitely be watching out for your signal, but I can't guarantee much judging by what I have now.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Wolfram, Thu Nov 30 2006, 06:04AM
Changing the frequency of crystals:
Wolfram, Thu Nov 30 2006, 06:04AM
Changing the frequency of crystals:
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Steve Conner, Thu Nov 30 2006, 10:46AM
Well, my web-enabled receiver seems good to go, so now you can join in the fun even if you don't have a radio! All you need to do is watch the web page (it updates every 20 seconds, I'll post a link nearer the time) and if you see Chris's signal, take a screencap and post it here. Don't say 4hv.org isn't good to you
The most likely times to receive the signal will probably be during so called "Grey line" propagation when it's morning at Chris's location and evening at mine or vice versa. So for a few hours around 1600 UTC and again at around 0800 UTC the next morning I guess. I never seem to get anything on 20m or 30m after dark.
Avalanche, if you get the crystal penning technique to work, please post and tell us about it! 99kHz is a long way
Steve Conner, Thu Nov 30 2006, 10:46AM
Well, my web-enabled receiver seems good to go, so now you can join in the fun even if you don't have a radio! All you need to do is watch the web page (it updates every 20 seconds, I'll post a link nearer the time) and if you see Chris's signal, take a screencap and post it here. Don't say 4hv.org isn't good to you
The most likely times to receive the signal will probably be during so called "Grey line" propagation when it's morning at Chris's location and evening at mine or vice versa. So for a few hours around 1600 UTC and again at around 0800 UTC the next morning I guess. I never seem to get anything on 20m or 30m after dark.
Avalanche, if you get the crystal penning technique to work, please post and tell us about it! 99kHz is a long way
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Dave Marshall, Thu Nov 30 2006, 01:39PM
I'm going to try streaming the test via the icecast stream we set up some time ago. With the speclab winamp plugin, you ought to be able to decode straight from the stream, though I'm not sure what the compression is going to do to the signal.
I'll post the link to the stream Saturday afternoon most likely.
Dave
Dave Marshall, Thu Nov 30 2006, 01:39PM
I'm going to try streaming the test via the icecast stream we set up some time ago. With the speclab winamp plugin, you ought to be able to decode straight from the stream, though I'm not sure what the compression is going to do to the signal.
I'll post the link to the stream Saturday afternoon most likely.
Dave
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Chris Russell, Thu Nov 30 2006, 07:21PM
Excellent. Not only can I send the signal out, but I can watch it come back via Dave and Steve's setups. I'll be sure to get screencaps of both.
Conner, or Dave, or anyone else using Speclab or Argo, you can set it up to take screencaps every so often, and store them in an incrementing number. It'd be quite nifty if you could store up an archive of screencaps. Given the slow speed at which QRSS10 moves, it shouldn't require more than a few hundred screencaps for the whole day. Argo tells me it'll take about 180, speclab should be even less because you can make the window physically larger.
Chris Russell, Thu Nov 30 2006, 07:21PM
Excellent. Not only can I send the signal out, but I can watch it come back via Dave and Steve's setups. I'll be sure to get screencaps of both.
Conner, or Dave, or anyone else using Speclab or Argo, you can set it up to take screencaps every so often, and store them in an incrementing number. It'd be quite nifty if you could store up an archive of screencaps. Given the slow speed at which QRSS10 moves, it shouldn't require more than a few hundred screencaps for the whole day. Argo tells me it'll take about 180, speclab should be even less because you can make the window physically larger.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Avalanche, Fri Dec 01 2006, 06:30PM
Thanks for the link Anders M, my crystals arrived today so I had a go at changing the frequency, and it does indeed seem to work. I was even able to achieve the 99Khz shift to 10.141Mhz but I admit the sensitivity to temperature changes is then pretty well 'amplified' probably due to all the ink.
Hopefully I'll have something working in time, the parents are going to get a shock when the halfwave dipole goes up tomorrow
Just thought I'd add, it didn't take much ink to achieve the shift, nothing like as much as shown on that page. I used 2 different kinds of permanent marker, 1 type did actually shift too much, then stopped the crystal from oscillating at all, but I was able to rub it off with some solvent when that happened and start again. My final technique was to apply too much ink, and then 'polish' it with a cotton bud to get near the right frequency. Just scratching the surface of the ink with the lead of a resistor shifted it by a few hundred Hz.
Avalanche, Fri Dec 01 2006, 06:30PM
Thanks for the link Anders M, my crystals arrived today so I had a go at changing the frequency, and it does indeed seem to work. I was even able to achieve the 99Khz shift to 10.141Mhz but I admit the sensitivity to temperature changes is then pretty well 'amplified' probably due to all the ink.
Hopefully I'll have something working in time, the parents are going to get a shock when the halfwave dipole goes up tomorrow
Just thought I'd add, it didn't take much ink to achieve the shift, nothing like as much as shown on that page. I used 2 different kinds of permanent marker, 1 type did actually shift too much, then stopped the crystal from oscillating at all, but I was able to rub it off with some solvent when that happened and start again. My final technique was to apply too much ink, and then 'polish' it with a cotton bud to get near the right frequency. Just scratching the surface of the ink with the lead of a resistor shifted it by a few hundred Hz.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Fri Dec 01 2006, 10:13PM
Nice job Avalanche. I may sacrifice some of my crystals to try that out. I am picking up a lot of ham activity now, you guys should listen in if your reciever is built.
ShawnLG, Fri Dec 01 2006, 10:13PM
Nice job Avalanche. I may sacrifice some of my crystals to try that out. I am picking up a lot of ham activity now, you guys should listen in if your reciever is built.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Avalanche, Fri Dec 01 2006, 10:40PM
Just a tip to save you some crystals when opening the cans, don't bother trying to saw it off at the base. Even with a razor saw and lots of patience, I wasted 4 crystals by doing that, something went wrong every time and I broke the crystal. What I eventually did was to firstly grind the top off the can, and then grind each side away carefully, then fan out the two sides of the can and break them off.
Something else I found was that by adding too much ink at once, the crystal stalls and it will never oscillate again. By adding the ink slowly and letting it dry in between, you can slowly work down the band.
Hope this saves you some crystals!
Avalanche, Fri Dec 01 2006, 10:40PM
Just a tip to save you some crystals when opening the cans, don't bother trying to saw it off at the base. Even with a razor saw and lots of patience, I wasted 4 crystals by doing that, something went wrong every time and I broke the crystal. What I eventually did was to firstly grind the top off the can, and then grind each side away carefully, then fan out the two sides of the can and break them off.
Something else I found was that by adding too much ink at once, the crystal stalls and it will never oscillate again. By adding the ink slowly and letting it dry in between, you can slowly work down the band.
Hope this saves you some crystals!
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Chris Russell, Sat Dec 02 2006, 04:53AM
Wow, impressive stuff. Glad to see I'll have some listeners! Just remember, you want your crystal to be 10.140MHz, ideally. If you're right on top of my signal, you won't be able to see it, as the difference (and therefore the output) will be just a few hz or less.
Chris Russell, Sat Dec 02 2006, 04:53AM
Wow, impressive stuff. Glad to see I'll have some listeners! Just remember, you want your crystal to be 10.140MHz, ideally. If you're right on top of my signal, you won't be able to see it, as the difference (and therefore the output) will be just a few hz or less.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Avalanche, Sat Dec 02 2006, 11:16PM
doh, I completely overlooked that but it makes sense now. Being as it's the beat frequency we're looking at, would it be ok to also go higher than 10.141? I'm only asking because my oscillator seems to have settled down on 10.1418Mhz.
As for my receiver, it's looking more and more unlikely that I'm going to have something working by tomorrow, the results of todays efforts is basically just a soldered mess that does nothing
There are too many 'unknowns' with my whole setup, hopefully I will stick at it and have something that works properly in time for the next transmission.
Avalanche, Sat Dec 02 2006, 11:16PM
doh, I completely overlooked that but it makes sense now. Being as it's the beat frequency we're looking at, would it be ok to also go higher than 10.141? I'm only asking because my oscillator seems to have settled down on 10.1418Mhz.
As for my receiver, it's looking more and more unlikely that I'm going to have something working by tomorrow, the results of todays efforts is basically just a soldered mess that does nothing
There are too many 'unknowns' with my whole setup, hopefully I will stick at it and have something that works properly in time for the next transmission.Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Sun Dec 03 2006, 05:15AM
Does anyone know what this is?
ShawnLG, Sun Dec 03 2006, 05:15AM
Does anyone know what this is?
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Chris Russell, Sun Dec 03 2006, 05:55AM
Depends where you recorded it. Looks too neat to be something randomly drifting, though.
Well, the beacon will be up. Give it a shot if you can. If not, there's always next time.
You can also be above the signal, but any chirped-hell text I send will end up inverted on your display. Not that big of a deal, but something to be aware of.
Chris Russell, Sun Dec 03 2006, 05:55AM
Depends where you recorded it. Looks too neat to be something randomly drifting, though.
Avalanche wrote ...
doh, I completely overlooked that but it makes sense now. Being as it's the beat frequency we're looking at, would it be ok to also go higher than 10.141? I'm only asking because my oscillator seems to have settled down on 10.1418Mhz.
As for my receiver, it's looking more and more unlikely that I'm going to have something working by tomorrow, the results of todays efforts is basically just a soldered mess that does nothing There are too many 'unknowns' with my whole setup, hopefully I will stick at it and have something that works properly in time for the next transmission.
doh, I completely overlooked that but it makes sense now. Being as it's the beat frequency we're looking at, would it be ok to also go higher than 10.141? I'm only asking because my oscillator seems to have settled down on 10.1418Mhz.
As for my receiver, it's looking more and more unlikely that I'm going to have something working by tomorrow, the results of todays efforts is basically just a soldered mess that does nothing
There are too many 'unknowns' with my whole setup, hopefully I will stick at it and have something that works properly in time for the next transmission.Well, the beacon will be up. Give it a shot if you can. If not, there's always next time.
You can also be above the signal, but any chirped-hell text I send will end up inverted on your display. Not that big of a deal, but something to be aware of.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Sun Dec 03 2006, 12:00PM
Depends where you recorded it. In new jersey. It would continusly wave up and down, not maintaining the same wave length. It ended around 1am.
ShawnLG, Sun Dec 03 2006, 12:00PM
Depends where you recorded it. In new jersey. It would continusly wave up and down, not maintaining the same wave length. It ended around 1am.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Steve Conner, Sun Dec 03 2006, 12:12PM
OK, my receiver is running now! Click here
to see what I'm seeing.
BTW, the time it shows is UTC, seeing as I'm in the UK.
Steve Conner, Sun Dec 03 2006, 12:12PM
OK, my receiver is running now! Click here
to see what I'm seeing.
BTW, the time it shows is UTC, seeing as I'm in the UK.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Sun Dec 03 2006, 02:38PM
So far I have recieved nothing. Chris, how is your loop antenna position?
ShawnLG, Sun Dec 03 2006, 02:38PM
So far I have recieved nothing. Chris, how is your loop antenna position?
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Avalanche, Sun Dec 03 2006, 03:04PM
What do people receive if they just connect their receiver to an audio amp? I'm not sure if my setup is working properly at all, I seem to be receiving is some random religous US shortwave station
edit: music now, coming from a local mediumwave station I think I can write off my attempt, but I hope everyone else has better luck than me.
Avalanche, Sun Dec 03 2006, 03:04PM
What do people receive if they just connect their receiver to an audio amp? I'm not sure if my setup is working properly at all, I seem to be receiving is some random religous US shortwave station
edit: music now, coming from a local mediumwave station
I think I can write off my attempt, but I hope everyone else has better luck than me.Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Dave Marshall, Sun Dec 03 2006, 03:32PM
The shortwave station you were hearing is in fact at 10.140Mhz. QRSS is quite able to transmit in the voice envelope of an AM station though. Don't give up yet, the bands change pretty drastically with time.
Dave
Dave Marshall, Sun Dec 03 2006, 03:32PM
The shortwave station you were hearing is in fact at 10.140Mhz. QRSS is quite able to transmit in the voice envelope of an AM station though. Don't give up yet, the bands change pretty drastically with time.
Dave
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Avalanche, Sun Dec 03 2006, 04:01PM
thanks for the reply, so I guess it was working more than I thought. I managed to eliminate the mediumwave station by changing the point at which I attached the antenna, got the shortwave station back then tried it in argo.
edit: ignore sorry, it was coming from the monitor
Avalanche, Sun Dec 03 2006, 04:01PM
thanks for the reply, so I guess it was working more than I thought. I managed to eliminate the mediumwave station by changing the point at which I attached the antenna, got the shortwave station back then tried it in argo.
edit: ignore sorry, it was coming from the monitor
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Chris Russell, Sun Dec 03 2006, 05:06PM
Despite some initial struggles to get it going, I am transmitting now. So far Dave has received me, let's see if we can get any more!
Chris Russell, Sun Dec 03 2006, 05:06PM
Despite some initial struggles to get it going, I am transmitting now. So far Dave has received me, let's see if we can get any more!
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Dave Marshall, Sun Dec 03 2006, 05:29PM
Heres a screen capture, taken around 1705Z.
My setup: Yaesu FT-857D HF radio, 3 element fan dipole (80m/40m/20m) up about 15m and almost perfectly broadside to Chris.
I'm receiving with speclab on my 1.2Ghz P4 laptop.
He's bouncing between -72dB and -48dB, I expect him to come up even more over the next couple hours. The slant is due to some serious thermal drift issues Chris was having early on. Seems to have flattened out a bit now.
More screen captures to come.
Dave
Dave Marshall, Sun Dec 03 2006, 05:29PM
Heres a screen capture, taken around 1705Z.
My setup: Yaesu FT-857D HF radio, 3 element fan dipole (80m/40m/20m) up about 15m and almost perfectly broadside to Chris.
I'm receiving with speclab on my 1.2Ghz P4 laptop.
He's bouncing between -72dB and -48dB, I expect him to come up even more over the next couple hours. The slant is due to some serious thermal drift issues Chris was having early on. Seems to have flattened out a bit now.
More screen captures to come.
Dave
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Chris Russell, Sun Dec 03 2006, 05:32PM
Here's a screencap as of about 1730Z, taken from Dave's stream. The drift appears to be stabilizing.
Chris Russell, Sun Dec 03 2006, 05:32PM
Here's a screencap as of about 1730Z, taken from Dave's stream. The drift appears to be stabilizing.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Dave Marshall, Sun Dec 03 2006, 05:57PM
I forgot about the stream!
This wont play on windows media player, you'll have to get winamp or the like. Amarok and XMMS handle it just fine in linux.
With the speclab plugin you can stream straight from winamp into speclab and decode. You cant actually hear Chris by ear, but he's quite obvious at about 1040Hz on a waterfall.
Dave
Dave Marshall, Sun Dec 03 2006, 05:57PM
I forgot about the stream!
This wont play on windows media player, you'll have to get winamp or the like. Amarok and XMMS handle it just fine in linux.
With the speclab plugin you can stream straight from winamp into speclab and decode. You cant actually hear Chris by ear, but he's quite obvious at about 1040Hz on a waterfall.
Dave
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Avalanche, Sun Dec 03 2006, 06:25PM
That is awesome, I connected to Dave's stream a few minutes ago and played around with argo
Avalanche, Sun Dec 03 2006, 06:25PM
That is awesome, I connected to Dave's stream a few minutes ago and played around with argo
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Chris Russell, Sun Dec 03 2006, 06:57PM
Excellent work, everyone! I guess technically that's only one reception report, but not bad. From Orono, Maine, to Warner Robins, Georgia. We've had a solid signal for a few hours now, though there is definitely some drift in my transmitter.
The bad news is that my antenna still needs work, as I am transmitting right now into about a 2.4:1 SWR. It pains me to think how much better I might be getting out if I could tune it down to a 1.1:1!
I am going to keep going for a while longer, until the 30m band is dead. If anyone wants to try with their own receiver, rather than Dave's stream, please do. :)
Chris Russell, Sun Dec 03 2006, 06:57PM
Excellent work, everyone! I guess technically that's only one reception report, but not bad. From Orono, Maine, to Warner Robins, Georgia. We've had a solid signal for a few hours now, though there is definitely some drift in my transmitter.
The bad news is that my antenna still needs work, as I am transmitting right now into about a 2.4:1 SWR. It pains me to think how much better I might be getting out if I could tune it down to a 1.1:1!
I am going to keep going for a while longer, until the 30m band is dead. If anyone wants to try with their own receiver, rather than Dave's stream, please do. :)
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Steve Conner, Sun Dec 03 2006, 07:09PM
I've been trying, but never got anything with my own receiver. So I connected my screencap server thingo to Dave's audio stream
Steve Conner, Sun Dec 03 2006, 07:09PM
I've been trying, but never got anything with my own receiver. So I connected my screencap server thingo to Dave's audio stream
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Sun Dec 03 2006, 07:42PM
I am not picking up the signal. I am going to relocate the reciever.
ShawnLG, Sun Dec 03 2006, 07:42PM
I am not picking up the signal. I am going to relocate the reciever.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Dave Marshall, Sun Dec 03 2006, 08:10PM
Heres another screen capture. The bands are really opening up, Chris is running a solid 20dB above the noise here.
This screen cap demonstrates the noise rejection capability of the various super slow modes. The bright yellow blurs are a rather discourteous operator using a mode known as THROB. After he got bored and wandered off, he came back again using PSK31, even after a friendly email from me asking him to move over 2khz.
Edit: It doesn't get a whole lot better than this. Getting towards 35dB above the noise. At this point he's actually audible during the peaks.
Below: We switched to qrss3 for a couple minutes. 3 times the data rate, still perfectly readable.
Dave
Dave Marshall, Sun Dec 03 2006, 08:10PM
Heres another screen capture. The bands are really opening up, Chris is running a solid 20dB above the noise here.
This screen cap demonstrates the noise rejection capability of the various super slow modes. The bright yellow blurs are a rather discourteous operator using a mode known as THROB. After he got bored and wandered off, he came back again using PSK31, even after a friendly email from me asking him to move over 2khz.
Edit: It doesn't get a whole lot better than this. Getting towards 35dB above the noise. At this point he's actually audible during the peaks.
Below: We switched to qrss3 for a couple minutes. 3 times the data rate, still perfectly readable.
Dave
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Sun Dec 03 2006, 09:27PM
I am not picking up anything but white noize. Does this mean that my mixer is too noizy?
ShawnLG, Sun Dec 03 2006, 09:27PM
I am not picking up anything but white noize. Does this mean that my mixer is too noizy?
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Dave Marshall, Sun Dec 03 2006, 10:25PM
A screen capture showing multiple path propagation in action.
Notice the vertical mirroring, visible particularly on the morse code characters to the left, but on some of the letters as well. This mirroring is caused by the same signal reaching the receiver through different paths. One path is usually more direct, a single skip off a high layer of the ionosphere, and another taking multiple hops (the weaker of the two signals you see there) off a lower layer.
The reason there appears to be a faint ghost is the multiple-hop path is generally subjected to a slightly greater amount of doppler shift than the more direct path.
This sort of propagation is pretty uncommon at solar minimum. Its something you see more often during the peak of the solar cycle.
Dave
Dave Marshall, Sun Dec 03 2006, 10:25PM
A screen capture showing multiple path propagation in action.
Notice the vertical mirroring, visible particularly on the morse code characters to the left, but on some of the letters as well. This mirroring is caused by the same signal reaching the receiver through different paths. One path is usually more direct, a single skip off a high layer of the ionosphere, and another taking multiple hops (the weaker of the two signals you see there) off a lower layer.
The reason there appears to be a faint ghost is the multiple-hop path is generally subjected to a slightly greater amount of doppler shift than the more direct path.
This sort of propagation is pretty uncommon at solar minimum. Its something you see more often during the peak of the solar cycle.
Dave
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Chris Russell, Sun Dec 03 2006, 11:33PM
Wow, really really amazing stuff. Thank you so much everyone for all your effort. I am taking the beacon down for now. I want to do a little more testing, and redesign the feed so that I can tune the antenna to a lower SWR. That should enhance my signal a little, and increase the stability, since the finals won't have to disspate 10% of the output RF as heat.
Watching the multipath propagation in action was really a great treat. To Dave's description, I would only add that the doppler shift is caused by the path growing longer, as the ionosphere becomes less refractive at night. As the level of ionization in all layers starts to fall, the signal travels further and further through the ionosphere, higher and higher up, before finally being returned to earth. Both signals are doppler shifted, but the one that passes through the ionosphere more than once experiences a greater increase in path length. It's really interesting and cool that we got to see this happen.
Included below are some of the screencaps I took of Dave's stream. You'll notice that there was some drift evident. The regular up and down drifting was caused by the heater in the apartment, cycling on and off, causing the ambient temperature in the room to cycle up and down. You'll also see that when I first fire up the transmitter, it drifts as it seeks thermal equilibrium.
The transmitter starts up. Signal is weak, lots of drift is evident.
Good eample of thermal cycling.
My signal tries to fight through interference cause by operators who were being inconsiderate, or couldn't hear me.
I adopt Dave's color scheme, and I get to see some multipath doppler shift.
With a final, dramatic shift upwards, and a burst of static, the band gives out for the night. The ionosphere is no longer returning my signals to earth, at least not in Dave's direction.
Chris Russell, Sun Dec 03 2006, 11:33PM
Wow, really really amazing stuff. Thank you so much everyone for all your effort. I am taking the beacon down for now. I want to do a little more testing, and redesign the feed so that I can tune the antenna to a lower SWR. That should enhance my signal a little, and increase the stability, since the finals won't have to disspate 10% of the output RF as heat.
Watching the multipath propagation in action was really a great treat. To Dave's description, I would only add that the doppler shift is caused by the path growing longer, as the ionosphere becomes less refractive at night. As the level of ionization in all layers starts to fall, the signal travels further and further through the ionosphere, higher and higher up, before finally being returned to earth. Both signals are doppler shifted, but the one that passes through the ionosphere more than once experiences a greater increase in path length. It's really interesting and cool that we got to see this happen.
Included below are some of the screencaps I took of Dave's stream. You'll notice that there was some drift evident. The regular up and down drifting was caused by the heater in the apartment, cycling on and off, causing the ambient temperature in the room to cycle up and down. You'll also see that when I first fire up the transmitter, it drifts as it seeks thermal equilibrium.
The transmitter starts up. Signal is weak, lots of drift is evident.
Good eample of thermal cycling.
My signal tries to fight through interference cause by operators who were being inconsiderate, or couldn't hear me.
I adopt Dave's color scheme, and I get to see some multipath doppler shift.
With a final, dramatic shift upwards, and a burst of static, the band gives out for the night. The ionosphere is no longer returning my signals to earth, at least not in Dave's direction.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Penguin7471, Mon Dec 04 2006, 08:08AM
Wow, truly amazing stuff! Awesome work.
I wish I had learnt more about different modes other than 16K0F3E
Penguin7471, Mon Dec 04 2006, 08:08AM
Wow, truly amazing stuff! Awesome work.
I wish I had learnt more about different modes other than 16K0F3E
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Wed Dec 06 2006, 09:31PM
What kind of mode is this?
ShawnLG, Wed Dec 06 2006, 09:31PM
What kind of mode is this?
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Dave Marshall, Wed Dec 06 2006, 10:02PM
Its difficult to say really. An audio recording or a screen capture zoomed out a little bit with a longer sample time would help. It could be any of the narrow modes. The sidebars and the narrow nature suggest it might be PSK, but thats really just a guess.
Dave
Dave Marshall, Wed Dec 06 2006, 10:02PM
Its difficult to say really. An audio recording or a screen capture zoomed out a little bit with a longer sample time would help. It could be any of the narrow modes. The sidebars and the narrow nature suggest it might be PSK, but thats really just a guess.
Dave
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Chris Russell, Thu Dec 07 2006, 03:19AM
I'd have to agree, that looks like a standard PSK31 signal.
Chris Russell, Thu Dec 07 2006, 03:19AM
I'd have to agree, that looks like a standard PSK31 signal.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Fri Jul 20 2007, 12:24AM
Finding this rare crystal reminded me of this beacon reception event. Chris, are you going to transmit QRSS again anytime soon?
ShawnLG, Fri Jul 20 2007, 12:24AM
Finding this rare crystal reminded me of this beacon reception event. Chris, are you going to transmit QRSS again anytime soon?
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Chris Russell, Fri Jul 20 2007, 06:18AM
Definitely. If there's any interest, I'll set up a date in the near future and announce it, so that people have time to prepare. I've made a few adjustments to the oscillator, so the signal shouldn't cycle nearly as much as last time. Mostly just a matter of adding a crystal heater. All I really need to do before transmitting again is find a way to keep the rig's temperature down. Probably just a matter of adding a fan or two.
Also, I have a new, shorter callsign now, so I should be able to transmit a bit more data.
Any other takers? Otherwise I'll just pick a time/date that works for ShawnLG.
Chris Russell, Fri Jul 20 2007, 06:18AM
Definitely. If there's any interest, I'll set up a date in the near future and announce it, so that people have time to prepare. I've made a few adjustments to the oscillator, so the signal shouldn't cycle nearly as much as last time. Mostly just a matter of adding a crystal heater. All I really need to do before transmitting again is find a way to keep the rig's temperature down. Probably just a matter of adding a fan or two.
Also, I have a new, shorter callsign now, so I should be able to transmit a bit more data.
Any other takers? Otherwise I'll just pick a time/date that works for ShawnLG.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Dave Marshall, Fri Jul 20 2007, 06:52AM
I'll be back stateside on around 5 August. Just let me know a date and time and I'm definitely in.
Given my new found abundance of radios, and working on getting more familiar with speclab, I may try a few different types of antennas, if the date is far enough in the future.
Chris will be visiting my house for 2 weeks at the end of September. While he's in georgia, we'll definitely take advantage of my real estate and do a beacon test on a long wire dipole at 50'. We'll have 3 of the same radios there, atleast two of which hopefully will have our new ultra stable oscillator hack, so that should be a very promising test. We'll be able to broadcast on multiple frequencies, through multiple antennas, favoring multiple directions. We might even be able to try adjusting the radio such that we can do less than 5w. I expect our friends across the atlantic to be able to receive it as well.
If we can really generate some interest, it would make a fantastic addition to a side project Chris and I are working on.
Dave
Dave Marshall, Fri Jul 20 2007, 06:52AM
I'll be back stateside on around 5 August. Just let me know a date and time and I'm definitely in.
Given my new found abundance of radios, and working on getting more familiar with speclab, I may try a few different types of antennas, if the date is far enough in the future.
Chris will be visiting my house for 2 weeks at the end of September. While he's in georgia, we'll definitely take advantage of my real estate and do a beacon test on a long wire dipole at 50'. We'll have 3 of the same radios there, atleast two of which hopefully will have our new ultra stable oscillator hack, so that should be a very promising test. We'll be able to broadcast on multiple frequencies, through multiple antennas, favoring multiple directions. We might even be able to try adjusting the radio such that we can do less than 5w. I expect our friends across the atlantic to be able to receive it as well.
If we can really generate some interest, it would make a fantastic addition to a side project Chris and I are working on.
Dave
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Steve Conner, Fri Jul 20 2007, 08:52AM
I'm up for another attempt too.
Steve Conner, Fri Jul 20 2007, 08:52AM
I'm up for another attempt too.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Fri Jul 20 2007, 03:37PM
This guy is selling a 10.140Mhz crystal, but his auction is over. If you don't have a 10.140Mhz crystal, you can PM him and ask if he is going to sell the crystal again.
Ebay crystal
ShawnLG, Fri Jul 20 2007, 03:37PM
This guy is selling a 10.140Mhz crystal, but his auction is over. If you don't have a 10.140Mhz crystal, you can PM him and ask if he is going to sell the crystal again.
Ebay crystal
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Chris Russell, Fri Jul 20 2007, 05:18PM
Wow, $9. If anyone is in need of a 10.140MHz crystal, I have one I am willing to part with. All I'd ask in return is a good honest effort to receive my signal.
Chris Russell, Fri Jul 20 2007, 05:18PM
Wow, $9. If anyone is in need of a 10.140MHz crystal, I have one I am willing to part with. All I'd ask in return is a good honest effort to receive my signal.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Fri Jul 20 2007, 08:04PM
My recever was still intact somewhat. I removed the dust and put it together and powered it up. I did receve a repeated morse transmittion, but I don't understand the language. A long keyed pause comes after the message. This transmittion peaked around 25db above the noize floor.
Message: de ve3to/b 5n25 ant vert
After a google search I found this site.
VE3TO/B beacon
This 5W beacon is located in Greenly On, Canada. I emailed the guy about my contact.
I found that using a EMI filter transformer(usually found in SMPS) on your audio line to your PC, this helps eliminate a lot of interference from your computer.
ShawnLG, Fri Jul 20 2007, 08:04PM
My recever was still intact somewhat. I removed the dust and put it together and powered it up. I did receve a repeated morse transmittion, but I don't understand the language. A long keyed pause comes after the message. This transmittion peaked around 25db above the noize floor.
Message: de ve3to/b 5n25 ant vert
After a google search I found this site.
VE3TO/B beacon
This 5W beacon is located in Greenly On, Canada. I emailed the guy about my contact.
I found that using a EMI filter transformer(usually found in SMPS) on your audio line to your PC, this helps eliminate a lot of interference from your computer.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Dave Marshall, Fri Jul 20 2007, 09:03PM
The message means "From VE3TO beacon. (not sure about the 5n25 bit) Antenna is a vertical"
Its a sort of short hand hams use with morse code to shorten transmissions.
Chris and I are discussing a receiver design that should ensure best possible results with a relatively cheap and simple circuit. The only real expense for most people will be the crystal(s), at $5-$8 each.
It could be easily made to support anywhere from 1 to 4 bands, and cover about 10Khz of the given band without too much trouble.
For the september test, I may consider producing a single or two band kit, if I hear any interest.
Dave
Dave Marshall, Fri Jul 20 2007, 09:03PM
The message means "From VE3TO beacon. (not sure about the 5n25 bit) Antenna is a vertical"
Its a sort of short hand hams use with morse code to shorten transmissions.
Chris and I are discussing a receiver design that should ensure best possible results with a relatively cheap and simple circuit. The only real expense for most people will be the crystal(s), at $5-$8 each.
It could be easily made to support anywhere from 1 to 4 bands, and cover about 10Khz of the given band without too much trouble.
For the september test, I may consider producing a single or two band kit, if I hear any interest.
Dave
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Chris Russell, Fri Jul 20 2007, 10:20PM
That sounds great, ShawnLG. If I'm not mistaken, a 25dB SNR would correspond to being about 4 S-units above the noise, which is great for a 5W beacon. When I transmit QRSS, I am for about 500mW or so of output power, which means if the path losses are the same, my signal would be 10dB weaker than his. However, switching to QRSS10 should provide roughly 20dB of gain, so with a little luck, you should see me in there with some good signal strength.
Also, now you know his frequency, so you can tell exactly where you are in the band.
Chris Russell, Fri Jul 20 2007, 10:20PM
That sounds great, ShawnLG. If I'm not mistaken, a 25dB SNR would correspond to being about 4 S-units above the noise, which is great for a 5W beacon. When I transmit QRSS, I am for about 500mW or so of output power, which means if the path losses are the same, my signal would be 10dB weaker than his. However, switching to QRSS10 should provide roughly 20dB of gain, so with a little luck, you should see me in there with some good signal strength.
Also, now you know his frequency, so you can tell exactly where you are in the band.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Avalanche, Fri Jul 20 2007, 11:34PM
It was about a week ago when I went up onto the roof and reconnected my TV antenna cable. On the last beacon attempt, in a rush to get a dipole up in the back garden I simply cut the coax going to my TV aerial and re-routed it to the dipole. When I took the dipole down, I (lazily) just cut the coax again and left it dangling there.
I'd be up for another reception attempt, if I can find the time to make another dipole and put it up. I didn't manage to pick anything up last time, even though I think my reciever was working fairly well (I had a strong signal on about 10.140Mhz from some US station). If anyone's interested, I could post the schematic for my receiver, but I'd have to reverse-engineer it first because I made it up as I went along! To be honest it's probably a load of rubbish that I just think works
I used the crystal penning technique to modify some 10.240Mhz crystals towards 10.140Mhz, with quite a bit of sucess. If anyone wants to have a go at that I have quite a few of those crystals going spare, just give me a shout.
Avalanche, Fri Jul 20 2007, 11:34PM
It was about a week ago when I went up onto the roof and reconnected my TV antenna cable. On the last beacon attempt, in a rush to get a dipole up in the back garden I simply cut the coax going to my TV aerial
and re-routed it to the dipole. When I took the dipole down, I (lazily) just cut the coax again and left it dangling there.I'd be up for another reception attempt, if I can find the time to make another dipole and put it up. I didn't manage to pick anything up last time, even though I think my reciever was working fairly well (I had a strong signal on about 10.140Mhz from some US station). If anyone's interested, I could post the schematic for my receiver, but I'd have to reverse-engineer it first because I made it up as I went along! To be honest it's probably a load of rubbish that I just think works
I used the crystal penning technique to modify some 10.240Mhz crystals towards 10.140Mhz, with quite a bit of sucess. If anyone wants to have a go at that I have quite a few of those crystals going spare, just give me a shout.
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Tue Jul 24 2007, 05:19PM
The beacon was stronger today, so I recorded it. No need for DSP to read it.
]1185297565_286_FT18313_ve3to_slash_b_beacon.zip[/ file]
ShawnLG, Tue Jul 24 2007, 05:19PM
The beacon was stronger today, so I recorded it. No need for DSP to read it.
]1185297565_286_FT18313_ve3to_slash_b_beacon.zip[/ file]
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
Dave Marshall, Wed Jul 25 2007, 10:08PM
For those looking for crystals on ham band frequencies, ShawnLG posted this earlier:
Dave
Dave Marshall, Wed Jul 25 2007, 10:08PM
For those looking for crystals on ham band frequencies, ShawnLG posted this earlier:
Dave
Re: Beacon Reception -- Any Interest?
ShawnLG, Wed Jul 25 2007, 11:23PM
I have finised updating the schematic to my reciever. Dave, you know what to do with this.
]1185405799_286_FT18313_30m_reciever.zip[/file]
ShawnLG, Wed Jul 25 2007, 11:23PM
I have finised updating the schematic to my reciever. Dave, you know what to do with this.
]1185405799_286_FT18313_30m_reciever.zip[/file]
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