What will 4,000 watts of energy do if I (theoretically) came into contact with HV, and got stuck?
ScottH, Thu Aug 10 2017, 05:10PMFor instance: A Parallel MOT setup that puts out 2.8Kv and 2.75A will cause 3,780W of energy to be dissipated (assuming 500 ohm internal resistance arm to arm; HV burns through skin nearly instantly). I know that is a very large amount of energy, and I know it is far above lethal, but what will the damage be if such a thing happened?
I don't mean to be morbid, but I am genuinely curious about the effects of electricity.
Re: What will 4,000 watts of energy do if I (theoretically) came into contact with HV, and got stuck?
Sulaiman, Thu Aug 10 2017, 06:04PM
It depends upon your luck/fate;
very small currents cause nerves to fire, causing muscle contractions or sensations of pain, heat etc.
currents in the milliamperes range can cause such upset to the heart that it looses its beat - fibrillation - lethal
higher currents for short periods stimulate most nerves, 5 senses + muscle spasms
could be lethal, could be used to jump-start the heart rhythm - defibrillation
even higher currents cause burns, vomiting so violent that your stomach empties into your lungs and you drown - or worse.
Neon sign transformers and oil burner ignition transformers limit current to 10 to 30 mA
Earth leakage circuit breakers trip in a similar range
so I guess that's what is considered survivable - usually.
If you have stored energy such as in capacitors, then you often can't easily limit the current.
I'm not qualified to give safety advice so do your own research also, it's worth it.
(due to legal liabilities, almost all sources will be over-cautious)
I believe that one person died from a 9v battery powered simpson multimeter on ohms range
and people have survived 25 kV ac, lightning etc.
So ... Do you feel lucky ?
(the older I get, the less lucky I feel, could be just age, or maybe wisdom
Sulaiman, Thu Aug 10 2017, 06:04PM
It depends upon your luck/fate;
very small currents cause nerves to fire, causing muscle contractions or sensations of pain, heat etc.
currents in the milliamperes range can cause such upset to the heart that it looses its beat - fibrillation - lethal
higher currents for short periods stimulate most nerves, 5 senses + muscle spasms
could be lethal, could be used to jump-start the heart rhythm - defibrillation
even higher currents cause burns, vomiting so violent that your stomach empties into your lungs and you drown - or worse.
Neon sign transformers and oil burner ignition transformers limit current to 10 to 30 mA
Earth leakage circuit breakers trip in a similar range
so I guess that's what is considered survivable - usually.
If you have stored energy such as in capacitors, then you often can't easily limit the current.
I'm not qualified to give safety advice so do your own research also, it's worth it.
(due to legal liabilities, almost all sources will be over-cautious)
I believe that one person died from a 9v battery powered simpson multimeter on ohms range
and people have survived 25 kV ac, lightning etc.
So ... Do you feel lucky ?
(the older I get, the less lucky I feel, could be just age, or maybe wisdom
Re: What will 4,000 watts of energy do if I (theoretically) came into contact with HV, and got stuck?
Conundrum, Fri Aug 11 2017, 05:20AM
Quite right. I nearly got fatally shocked (needed medical attention) from 7 CCFL inverters wired in parallel.
See "High voltage sparkler experiment"..
Anything you do must have 2 levels of failsafes, ie a "buddy" trained in first aid and a mechanical button that shuts down if it isn't held down.
Ideally the whole setup should be in a sealed box and control panel has separate grounding to prevent dangerous RF leakage.
Conundrum, Fri Aug 11 2017, 05:20AM
Quite right. I nearly got fatally shocked (needed medical attention) from 7 CCFL inverters wired in parallel.
See "High voltage sparkler experiment"..
Anything you do must have 2 levels of failsafes, ie a "buddy" trained in first aid and a mechanical button that shuts down if it isn't held down.
Ideally the whole setup should be in a sealed box and control panel has separate grounding to prevent dangerous RF leakage.
Re: What will 4,000 watts of energy do if I (theoretically) came into contact with HV, and got stuck?
Sulaiman, Fri Aug 11 2017, 08:12AM
You see what age does to us ...
we older guys do not want less experienced members to electrocute themselves
it is bad for 4HV membership figures.
Most of us older members have heard of, seen or been involved in electric shock incidents, so appreciate the risks (usually).
I'm sure that we could have a bragging session about who has had the most/worst/luckiest/stupidest incidents,
it is interesting and informative but
it may make 'noobs' less cautious,
and we (I) would be revealing how stupid we (I) have been in the past,
and as we are survivours, we are also amongst the 'lucky'
On the other hand, it is possibly only those that take risks who progress ?
Sulaiman, Fri Aug 11 2017, 08:12AM
You see what age does to us ...
we older guys do not want less experienced members to electrocute themselves
it is bad for 4HV membership figures.
Most of us older members have heard of, seen or been involved in electric shock incidents, so appreciate the risks (usually).
I'm sure that we could have a bragging session about who has had the most/worst/luckiest/stupidest incidents,
it is interesting and informative but
it may make 'noobs' less cautious,
and we (I) would be revealing how stupid we (I) have been in the past,
and as we are survivours, we are also amongst the 'lucky'
On the other hand, it is possibly only those that take risks who progress ?
Re: What will 4,000 watts of energy do if I (theoretically) came into contact with HV, and got stuck?
Hazmatt_(The Underdog), Fri Aug 11 2017, 03:56PM
If you are curious, do yourself a favor, get a lab assistant and do the testing on him... HAHAHHAHA
No but seriously, go to the meat market and get yourself a pig.
You can test a pig as much as you want as an "analogue" and nobody has to have fingers BURNED OFF as a result.
And once your pig is bar-b-q'ed you can slather your favorite sauce on it and "go to town".
Stay safe.
Hazmatt_(The Underdog), Fri Aug 11 2017, 03:56PM
If you are curious, do yourself a favor, get a lab assistant and do the testing on him... HAHAHHAHA
No but seriously, go to the meat market and get yourself a pig.
You can test a pig as much as you want as an "analogue" and nobody has to have fingers BURNED OFF as a result.
And once your pig is bar-b-q'ed you can slather your favorite sauce on it and "go to town".
Stay safe.
Re: What will 4,000 watts of energy do if I (theoretically) came into contact with HV, and got stuck?
ScottH, Sat Aug 12 2017, 01:37PM
That's a good idea. I need to get that much money to spare haha.
ScottH, Sat Aug 12 2017, 01:37PM
Hazmatt_(The Underdog) wrote ...
If you are curious, do yourself a favor, get a lab assistant and do the testing on him... HAHAHHAHA
No but seriously, go to the meat market and get yourself a pig.
You can test a pig as much as you want as an "analogue" and nobody has to have fingers BURNED OFF as a result.
And once your pig is bar-b-q'ed you can slather your favorite sauce on it and "go to town".
Stay safe.
If you are curious, do yourself a favor, get a lab assistant and do the testing on him... HAHAHHAHA
No but seriously, go to the meat market and get yourself a pig.
You can test a pig as much as you want as an "analogue" and nobody has to have fingers BURNED OFF as a result.
And once your pig is bar-b-q'ed you can slather your favorite sauce on it and "go to town".
Stay safe.
That's a good idea. I need to get that much money to spare haha.
Re: What will 4,000 watts of energy do if I (theoretically) came into contact with HV, and got stuck?
Kolas, Sun Aug 13 2017, 01:28PM
Hot dogs are often times good (cheap) pig analogues. ^_^
Just make sure it's made of pork!
Kolas, Sun Aug 13 2017, 01:28PM
Hot dogs are often times good (cheap) pig analogues. ^_^
Just make sure it's made of pork!
Re: What will 4,000 watts of energy do if I (theoretically) came into contact with HV, and got stuck?
ScottH, Sun Aug 13 2017, 11:12PM
Been there done that haha. A hot dog won't use more than 400w out of the supply. The power consumed by it is almost like hooking up 120v to it, but quicker. A hotdog has about 40 ohms or resistance. 500 ohms would cause a much bigger voltage drop at 3A (about my power supply's max) so the wattage is much more.
I just mainly want to understand the thermal damage effects on the human body from my setup.
ScottH, Sun Aug 13 2017, 11:12PM
Kolas wrote ...
Hot dogs are often times good (cheap) pig analogues. ^_^
Just make sure it's made of pork!
Hot dogs are often times good (cheap) pig analogues. ^_^
Just make sure it's made of pork!
Been there done that haha. A hot dog won't use more than 400w out of the supply. The power consumed by it is almost like hooking up 120v to it, but quicker. A hotdog has about 40 ohms or resistance. 500 ohms would cause a much bigger voltage drop at 3A (about my power supply's max) so the wattage is much more.
I just mainly want to understand the thermal damage effects on the human body from my setup.
Re: What will 4,000 watts of energy do if I (theoretically) came into contact with HV, and got stuck?
Justin, Mon Aug 14 2017, 03:26AM
There are plenty of videos showing exactly what happens when this occurs, it isn't pretty.
Justin, Mon Aug 14 2017, 03:26AM
There are plenty of videos showing exactly what happens when this occurs, it isn't pretty.
Re: What will 4,000 watts of energy do if I (theoretically) came into contact with HV, and got stuck?
DerAlbi, Mon Aug 14 2017, 05:53AM
Havent read the thread, but i want to note that the thread title is extremely offensive to anyone with an educational background.
"Watts of Energy" are you kidding me ?
Either "Watts of power" or "joules of energy".
Sry.. but the problem is that people read this and such stuff sticks in their mind setting the basis for a completely fucked up mind set about units and physics in general. The more wrong stuff circulates the [EDIT]internet[/EDIT] the more future generations will suffer. The fact that 5 people contributed to this discussion and no one notices such basic mistake is depressing
Next step is "A car thats as fast as 10 g" i guess.
DerAlbi, Mon Aug 14 2017, 05:53AM
Havent read the thread, but i want to note that the thread title is extremely offensive to anyone with an educational background.
"Watts of Energy" are you kidding me ?
Either "Watts of power" or "joules of energy".
Sry.. but the problem is that people read this and such stuff sticks in their mind setting the basis for a completely fucked up mind set about units and physics in general. The more wrong stuff circulates the [EDIT]internet[/EDIT] the more future generations will suffer. The fact that 5 people contributed to this discussion and no one notices such basic mistake is depressing
Next step is "A car thats as fast as 10 g" i guess.
Re: What will 4,000 watts of energy do if I (theoretically) came into contact with HV, and got stuck?
hen918, Mon Aug 14 2017, 09:20AM
Oh, I did, but I have already given up correcting ScottH.
hen918, Mon Aug 14 2017, 09:20AM
DerAlbi wrote ...
Havent read the thread, but i want to note that the thread title is extremely offensive to anyone with an educational background.
"Watts of Energy" are you kidding me ?
Either "Watts of power" or "joules of energy".
Sry.. but the problem is that people read this and such stuff sticks in their mind setting the basis for a completely fucked up mind set about units and physics in general. The more wrong stuff circulates the energy the more future generation will suffer. The fact that 5 people contributed to this discussion and no one notices such basic mistake is depressing
Next step is "A car thats as fast as 10 g" i guess.
Havent read the thread, but i want to note that the thread title is extremely offensive to anyone with an educational background.
"Watts of Energy" are you kidding me ?
Either "Watts of power" or "joules of energy".
Sry.. but the problem is that people read this and such stuff sticks in their mind setting the basis for a completely fucked up mind set about units and physics in general. The more wrong stuff circulates the energy the more future generation will suffer. The fact that 5 people contributed to this discussion and no one notices such basic mistake is depressing
Next step is "A car thats as fast as 10 g" i guess.
Oh, I did, but I have already given up correcting ScottH.
Re: What will 4,000 watts of energy do if I (theoretically) came into contact with HV, and got stuck?
radiotech, Tue Aug 15 2017, 02:26AM
A coworker was drawing out a 2300 volt circuit breaker and came into contact with the
live bus system. He became stuck, because the current paralyzed him.
He was drawing out the breaker, so the workers (saw sharpeners) could apply locks
to prevent the saw from starting. So they were close to him when the accident happened.
One of them, gave him a flying kick to free him.
His hands were burned. Besides that, he was back to work soon.
An investigation revealed a freak cause. As a result all the breakers in the plant (about 75 of them),
were modified so this could never happen again.
A microwave transformer can burn you.
radiotech, Tue Aug 15 2017, 02:26AM
A coworker was drawing out a 2300 volt circuit breaker and came into contact with the
live bus system. He became stuck, because the current paralyzed him.
He was drawing out the breaker, so the workers (saw sharpeners) could apply locks
to prevent the saw from starting. So they were close to him when the accident happened.
One of them, gave him a flying kick to free him.
His hands were burned. Besides that, he was back to work soon.
An investigation revealed a freak cause. As a result all the breakers in the plant (about 75 of them),
were modified so this could never happen again.
A microwave transformer can burn you.
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