Musical dc triggered gap coil?
Benjamin, Mon Nov 09 2015, 09:02PMWhat if you used a midi controller to control the firing speed of the trigger system so that it can play different notes. Is this possible?
Re: Musical dc triggered gap coil?
nzoomed, Mon Nov 09 2015, 10:22PM
You would think it should be possible, i was wondering if this would be possible with a VTTC as well.
nzoomed, Mon Nov 09 2015, 10:22PM
You would think it should be possible, i was wondering if this would be possible with a VTTC as well.
Re: Musical dc triggered gap coil?
Sigurthr, Mon Nov 09 2015, 11:41PM
There's almost no point for VTTC since you can run them CW and even just Class-A modulate the output.
Yes you can use triggered gaps and modulate the trigger rates, but fast enough quenching tends to be a problem as most triggers stay latched until current drops, limiting how short pulses can be.
Sigurthr, Mon Nov 09 2015, 11:41PM
There's almost no point for VTTC since you can run them CW and even just Class-A modulate the output.
Yes you can use triggered gaps and modulate the trigger rates, but fast enough quenching tends to be a problem as most triggers stay latched until current drops, limiting how short pulses can be.
Re: Musical dc triggered gap coil?
Benjamin, Mon Nov 09 2015, 11:52PM
How come nobody has done this? It seems like it is a very simple way to build a musical coil. Also, would it be able to play two notes at once?
Benjamin, Mon Nov 09 2015, 11:52PM
How come nobody has done this? It seems like it is a very simple way to build a musical coil. Also, would it be able to play two notes at once?
Re: Musical dc triggered gap coil?
Sigurthr, Tue Nov 10 2015, 01:20AM
Triggered SGTC? Many people have done it, but afaik the quench rate doesn't allow real music, just perhaps a few bass notes to be played.
If you mean the CW Hi-Fi modulations... lots and lots of people have done it. You just haven't seen it! CW coils get very little love since they don't make long sparks.
CW coils can play white noise if you so wish, the polyphonic limit is the modulation bandwidth of the resonator. I don't do VTTC versions myself as the equipment is far more expensive for me to import than the locally available silicon alternatives, but I've got many videos of my coils playing (non-midi) music. This is OT as far as the title of the thread goes though.
The question is more if a SIDAC TC could be or has been modulated to play simple midi-style music. That I know of, no one has tried it, but SIDAC coils were only in favor for a short period of time and were exceptionally complex in construction compared to alternatives. Their main feature being solely that there is no loud spark gap, but you get SGTC-like results.
Sigurthr, Tue Nov 10 2015, 01:20AM
Triggered SGTC? Many people have done it, but afaik the quench rate doesn't allow real music, just perhaps a few bass notes to be played.
If you mean the CW Hi-Fi modulations... lots and lots of people have done it. You just haven't seen it! CW coils get very little love since they don't make long sparks.
CW coils can play white noise if you so wish, the polyphonic limit is the modulation bandwidth of the resonator. I don't do VTTC versions myself as the equipment is far more expensive for me to import than the locally available silicon alternatives, but I've got many videos of my coils playing (non-midi) music. This is OT as far as the title of the thread goes though.
The question is more if a SIDAC TC could be or has been modulated to play simple midi-style music. That I know of, no one has tried it, but SIDAC coils were only in favor for a short period of time and were exceptionally complex in construction compared to alternatives. Their main feature being solely that there is no loud spark gap, but you get SGTC-like results.
Re: Musical dc triggered gap coil?
Benjamin, Tue Nov 10 2015, 03:45AM
Are you saying that triggered gaps can't do high break rates?
Benjamin, Tue Nov 10 2015, 03:45AM
Are you saying that triggered gaps can't do high break rates?
Re: Musical dc triggered gap coil?
Sigurthr, Tue Nov 10 2015, 11:23PM
Depending on your definition of "high" yes, because you can't control precisely when they quench. You can set the gap to a large voltage, and increase trigger voltage to allow shorter on state durations, but the wider the gap the more convection will affect the arc, the more energy wasted in the gap, and the less reliably the gap will fire. There are vacuum tube triggered gaps with high firing rates, but ablation will be a problem as well as peak power, and finding ones which quench fast enough is difficult.
Either way you won't replicate the midi music performance of a DRSSTC, if that's what you're after.
Sigurthr, Tue Nov 10 2015, 11:23PM
Depending on your definition of "high" yes, because you can't control precisely when they quench. You can set the gap to a large voltage, and increase trigger voltage to allow shorter on state durations, but the wider the gap the more convection will affect the arc, the more energy wasted in the gap, and the less reliably the gap will fire. There are vacuum tube triggered gaps with high firing rates, but ablation will be a problem as well as peak power, and finding ones which quench fast enough is difficult.
Either way you won't replicate the midi music performance of a DRSSTC, if that's what you're after.
Re: Musical dc triggered gap coil?
Hydron, Tue Nov 10 2015, 11:47PM
and the 4hv thread:
Hydron, Tue Nov 10 2015, 11:47PM
Sigurthr wrote ...
The question is more if a SIDAC TC could be or has been modulated to play simple midi-style music. That I know of, no one has tried it, but SIDAC coils were only in favor for a short period of time and were exceptionally complex in construction compared to alternatives. Their main feature being solely that there is no loud spark gap, but you get SGTC-like results.
see: The question is more if a SIDAC TC could be or has been modulated to play simple midi-style music. That I know of, no one has tried it, but SIDAC coils were only in favor for a short period of time and were exceptionally complex in construction compared to alternatives. Their main feature being solely that there is no loud spark gap, but you get SGTC-like results.
and the 4hv thread:
Re: Musical dc triggered gap coil?
Benjamin, Wed Nov 11 2015, 01:15AM
As cool as they are,I'm not talking about SIDAC TC's. If there is any way to build a musical coil with a triggered spark gap, I want to try it. Because musical coils are awesome and I haven't had much luck with solid state stuff. It's fine if I'm limited to lower notes.
Benjamin, Wed Nov 11 2015, 01:15AM
As cool as they are,I'm not talking about SIDAC TC's. If there is any way to build a musical coil with a triggered spark gap, I want to try it. Because musical coils are awesome and I haven't had much luck with solid state stuff. It's fine if I'm limited to lower notes.
Re: Musical dc triggered gap coil?
Mads Barnkob, Wed Nov 11 2015, 07:26AM
I would imagine that a RSG with a fairly large servo motor could do the trick, quickly switching speeds up and down for playing notes, that might even get the sound close to a DRSSTC.
Mads Barnkob, Wed Nov 11 2015, 07:26AM
Benjamin wrote ...
As cool as they are,I'm not talking about SIDAC TC's. If there is any way to build a musical coil with a triggered spark gap, I want to try it. Because musical coils are awesome and I haven't had much luck with solid state stuff. It's fine if I'm limited to lower notes.
As cool as they are,I'm not talking about SIDAC TC's. If there is any way to build a musical coil with a triggered spark gap, I want to try it. Because musical coils are awesome and I haven't had much luck with solid state stuff. It's fine if I'm limited to lower notes.
I would imagine that a RSG with a fairly large servo motor could do the trick, quickly switching speeds up and down for playing notes, that might even get the sound close to a DRSSTC.
Re: Musical dc triggered gap coil?
Benjamin, Wed Nov 11 2015, 05:03PM
That was another idea that I had a while ago. I was also wondering if 2 rotary gaps wired in parallel running at different speeds, and hooked up to a dc system with a filter capacitor, would play two notes at once?
Benjamin, Wed Nov 11 2015, 05:03PM
That was another idea that I had a while ago. I was also wondering if 2 rotary gaps wired in parallel running at different speeds, and hooked up to a dc system with a filter capacitor, would play two notes at once?
Re: Musical dc triggered gap coil?
Hydron, Wed Nov 11 2015, 11:35PM
My suggestion is to give it a go, be the first! :)
Hydron, Wed Nov 11 2015, 11:35PM
Benjamin wrote ...
As cool as they are,I'm not talking about SIDAC TC's. If there is any way to build a musical coil with a triggered spark gap, I want to try it. Because musical coils are awesome and I haven't had much luck with solid state stuff. It's fine if I'm limited to lower notes.
A triggered SIDAC and triggered spark gap should actually behave fairly similarly (assuming ionized air from previous firings doesn't cause issues at high breakrates). They both connect the tank cap and coil together upon triggered firing, and quench/turn-off after most of the energy has left the tank. Note that Finn Hammer's coil looks like a low voltage (OLTC-like) one using just 1 IGBT for the "gap" and a low-L/high-C tank, but the idea is still the same.As cool as they are,I'm not talking about SIDAC TC's. If there is any way to build a musical coil with a triggered spark gap, I want to try it. Because musical coils are awesome and I haven't had much luck with solid state stuff. It's fine if I'm limited to lower notes.
My suggestion is to give it a go, be the first! :)
Re: Musical dc triggered gap coil?
GrantX, Fri Dec 18 2015, 07:57AM
If you had two rotary gaps in parallel with a DC supply and both gaps were firing at 50 BPS, with one shifted by exactly 180 degrees, the resulting streamer would sound very similar to a coil with a single rotary gap firing at 100 BPS. I think. I imagine it would be possible to create interesting surging effects with two parallel gaps firing at different rates, kinda similar to the interrupters used with VTTC's (like the surging effect seen half way through this video:
I have no idea how you could control the phase difference between the gaps accurately, but someone more mechanically-inclined could possibly find a solution.
GrantX, Fri Dec 18 2015, 07:57AM
Benjamin wrote ...
That was another idea that I had a while ago. I was also wondering if 2 rotary gaps wired in parallel running at different speeds, and hooked up to a dc system with a filter capacitor, would play two notes at once?
I'm not sure if it would play two very distinct tones once, but it could be rather fun to play around with. With an asynchronous gap and AC input you see a lot of surging, because the capacitor is charged to a higher voltage much faster at the peaks of the sine wave. You can see/hear a really good example towards the end of this video of Ed Wingate's infamous magnifier: That was another idea that I had a while ago. I was also wondering if 2 rotary gaps wired in parallel running at different speeds, and hooked up to a dc system with a filter capacitor, would play two notes at once?
If you had two rotary gaps in parallel with a DC supply and both gaps were firing at 50 BPS, with one shifted by exactly 180 degrees, the resulting streamer would sound very similar to a coil with a single rotary gap firing at 100 BPS. I think. I imagine it would be possible to create interesting surging effects with two parallel gaps firing at different rates, kinda similar to the interrupters used with VTTC's (like the surging effect seen half way through this video:
I have no idea how you could control the phase difference between the gaps accurately, but someone more mechanically-inclined could possibly find a solution.
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